Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on 03/05/2016.
I have a thought that expectations of the benefits of ADHD medication may be too high. Maybe not so much for the non-ADHD spouse, but for the person with a later-in-life diagnosis of ADHD.
A person with near-sightedness can wear a pair of glasses or contacts to 'improve' their vision. At days end, they remove the glasses or contacts, and obviously those things did not 'fix' their vision.
I think if we had a clear list of specifically what the medication will do, than it may be easier to understand if the the medication is beneficial or not.
Just wondering,
Liz
Anger and frustration ADHD
Submitted by SleepingBeauty on
Well I just registered looking for a light of hope for myself and as things sometimes go I am happy to give hope to someone else. As with everything in life it depends on the person , their body ,the medicine--- effort put into it. My husband is the one with ADHD diagnosed 4 months ago at age 56. Medicine has been miraculous for him and he has been working very hard to make changes. Lots of therapy ! We both have have our own therapist and one we see together. Before meds but after diagnosis was a spiraling time . The thing I have not seen addressed much is suppose the non ADHD partner has their own unrelated issues? Then what? Best of luck !
About the meds
Submitted by Delphine on
I don't like pharmaceuticals, period. I was upset when son informed me he was going on a stimulant med some months ago. But he was determined. He thinks it is helping, but I think he would benefit more from ADHD coaching. Whatever, it is his life, as he pointed out to me.
I am trying to get him interested in this herb, which I am taking myself, just as a mood booster, I really like it: http://www.medicinehunter.com/sceletium-potent-mood-booster
It helps focus and concentration as well, which is why I think it would be helpful for ADHD. I think I am a bit ADHD myself. I was raised by an ADHD mom, after all.
There are reports that meditation is very helpful with ADHD. I have read that a high-protein diet and heavy exercise are also very good for ADHD. I got my son a rebounder and he loves jumping on it.
Delphine
SleepingBeauty...A few thoughts about your question....
Submitted by c ur self on
(The thing I have not seen addressed much is suppose the non ADHD partner has their own unrelated issues?)
My feelings about your question is simple...Everyone living with a human mind has issues...In my own life, I suffer the most when I'm refusing to face them, or am blind to them. They are usually easily noticed by others; even if they can't identify them. There is a root of dysfunction ( spiritual, nature or nurture) that produces the manifestation of my issue or issues.. (I have many).
I think my relationships (Holy spirit, spouse, children, co-workers and friends, this forum) are the best tool for bringing me to self-awareness and exposing my issues.
You asked "Then what"?? Well, If I am aware of my issues...Lets take the most common one for me as an example: Hypertension sets in when I feel threatened...(threatened hear means when someone attempts to control or manipulate me, pressure me, or push me out of my comfort zone of what I think is wise or just many times what i don't want to do)...I use to handle this wrong most every time (still do at times)...Another one of my issues is "people pleasing" (this is different from a servant gifting)....So, when confronted with what I considered a threat, I would not do what needed to be done in the moment. I would wait until I was under stress and feeling the tension before I would address it...Usually it came out as defensive and anger or at least very stern. (talking with hands, pointing fingers etc)....But, if I refuse to engage when I feel threatened or pressed...I can keep my peace, and never move into the unhealthy state....
So, in my life; I have issues, but, they are manageable when I'm not in denial of them...
Hope this example helped.....
Blessings!
C
Adderall was a miracle drug
Submitted by AliceInBraids on
Adderall was a miracle drug for my husband. I truly saw the best version of him emerge and by his own word he was happier and had more mental clarity than ever in his life, and you could tell. He said he did not even realize how many ways ADHD affected him until he took adderall and it stopped. His perspective on many things changed and he was in love with being able to understand himself and have control. It was a beautiful thing. Sadly adderall is very addictive and has a super duper high potential for abuse, which is exactly what my husband did. He said he was afraid it was wearing off and he would go back to the "old" him, so he would take a bit more, and a bit more... So if your loved one has an addictive personality I'd avoid adderall. But if you find the right meds, along with verbal therapy, you CAN get those results :) We are back to looking for the right meds now, and my husband also stresses often how much verbal therapy helps him. His therapist has ADHD and if possible I'd recommend finding one who specializes in it because they can be invaluable in a system that (in my experience) rushes to a diagnosis and overmedicates - which brings me to my next piece of advice which is be ready to be their advocate and keep on top of what meds are being given and why. My husband has been through some awful things as a result of doctors throwing meds at the problem and its so important that he be heard and considered as an individual. Anyway best of luck to you and your loved one! The best is yet to come :)
What Do Drugs Do?
Submitted by kellyj on
Better ....what don't they do? I'll start by answering the first question first.
Adderall (or any stimulant medication prescribed for ADHD) is basically derived from two primary molecular compounds in the family of Methamphetamine or Amphetamine.
Amphetamine belongs to the phenethylamine class. It is also the parent compound of its own structural class, the substituted amphetamines,[note 4] which includes prominent substances such as bupropion, cathinone, MDMA (ecstasy), and methamphetamine.
As a member of the phenethylamine class, amphetamine is also chemically related to the naturally occurring trace amine neuromodulators, specifically phenethylamine and N-methylphenethylamine, both of which are produced within the human body.
Phenethylamine is the parent compound of amphetamine,
while N-methylphenethylamine is a constitutional isomer that differs only in the placement of the methyl group....
Methamphetamine[note 1] (contracted from N-methylamphetamine) is a strong central nervous system (CNS) stimulant that is mainly used as a recreational drug.
Methamphetamine hydrochloride is approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration (USFDA) under the trade name Desoxyn for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and obesity in adults and children, and is sometimes prescribed off label for narcolepsy. It is rarely prescribed due to concerns involving human neurotoxicity and its Methamphetamine exists as two enantiomers: dextromethamphetamine and levomethamphetamine.[note 2] Methamphetamine properly refers to a specific chemical, the racemic free base, which is an equal mixture of levomethamphetamine and dextromethamphetamine in their pure amine forms.
Also known as (AKA) in common street vernacular:
Meth
Crack
Ice
Cocaine (or Freebase in it's purest form)
Crank (given the name from the Hells Angels who use to transport crystal Meth in the crank cases of their Harley Davidson motorcycles to avoid arrest)
Cross Tops
Black Beauties,
Bennies
Benzedrine
Uppers
Pep Pills
Diet Pills
and finally Speed...just to name a few.
It's also found in drugs used for Allergies and nasal congestion like
Psuedonephadrine (Psuedofed),
Chlor Trimatin
Other variations known as analogs are defined here from an article on Hallucinogenic Amphetamine Analog or DOM defined: The amphetamine analog, 2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine (DOM), was studied in 18 volunteer subjects given single doses ranging from 2 to 14 mg. The former was a threshold dose, with definite psychotomimetic effects being evident from doses over 5 mg. The clinical syndrome greatly resembled that of the LSD-mescaline-psilocybin series of drugs, including its time-course. AKA common street name... "STP "
What do they do?
Physical
At normal therapeutic doses, the physical side effects of amphetamine vary widely by age and from person to person.[36] Cardiovascular side effects can include hypertension or hypotension from a vasovagal response, Raynaud's phenomenon (reduced blood flow to extremities), and tachycardia (increased heart rate).[36][39][86] Sexual side effects in males may include erectile dysfunction, frequent erections, or prolonged erections.[36] Abdominal side effects may include abdominal pain, loss of appetite, nausea, and weight loss.[36][87] Other potential side effects include acne, blurred vision, dry mouth, excessive grinding of the teeth, nosebleed, profuse sweating, rhinitis medicamentosa (drug-induced nasal congestion), reduced seizure threshold, and tics (a type of movement disorder).[sources 5] Dangerous physical side effects are rare at typical pharmaceutical doses.[39]
Amphetamine stimulates the medullary respiratory centers, producing faster and deeper breaths.[39] In a normal person at therapeutic doses, this effect is usually not noticeable, but when respiration is already compromised, it may be evident.[39] Amphetamine also induces contraction in the urinary bladder sphincter, the muscle which controls urination, which can result in difficulty urinating. This effect can be useful in treating bed wetting and loss of bladder control.[39] The effects of amphetamine on the gastrointestinal tract are unpredictable.[39] If intestinal activity is high, amphetamine may reduce gastrointestinal motility (the rate at which content moves through the digestive system);[39] however, amphetamine may increase motility when the smooth muscle of the tract is relaxed.[39] Amphetamine also has a slight analgesic effect and can enhance the pain relieving effects of opioids.[39]
USFDA-commissioned studies from 2011 indicate that in children, young adults, and adults there is no association between serious adverse cardiovascular events (sudden death, heart attack, and stroke) and the medical use of amphetamine or other ADHD stimulants.[sources 6]
Psychological
Common psychological effects of therapeutic doses can include increased alertness, apprehension, concentration, decreased sense of fatigue, mood swings (elated mood followed by mildly depressed mood), increased initiative, insomnia or wakefulness, self-confidence, and sociability.[36][39] Less common side effects include anxiety, change in libido, grandiosity, irritability, repetitive or obsessive behaviors, and restlessness;[sources 7] these effects depend on the user's personality and current mental state.[39] Amphetamine psychosis (e.g., delusions and paranoia) can occur in heavy users.[27][36][40] Although very rare, this psychosis can also occur at therapeutic doses during long-term therapy.[27][36][41] According to the USFDA, "there is no systematic evidence" that stimulants produce aggressive behavior or hostility.[36]
Why do they work for ADHD? What is the effectiveness and the purpose for taking them other than the obvious or target effects outside of all the other so called "side effect" or "effects that you don't want?" even though they are/or can be there anyway despite what they are not saying (exactly that way)
Humans have also been shown to develop conditioned place preferences; for example, individuals taking therapeutic doses of amphetamine develop a CPP for where they consumed the drug.[5][6]
As defined..Conditioned place preference (CPP) is a form of Pavlovian conditioning used to measure the motivational effects of objects or experiences.[1] This paradigm can also be used to measure conditioned place aversion with an identical procedure involving aversive stimuli instead. Both procedures usually involve mice or rats as subjects.[2][3] This procedure can be used to measure extinction and reinstatement of the conditioned stimulus. Certain drugs are used in this paradigm to measure their reinforcing properties. Two different methods are used to choose the compartments to be conditioned, and these are biased vs. unbiased. The biased method allows the animal to explore the apparatus, and the compartment they least prefer is the one that the drug is administered in and the one they most prefer is the one where the vehicle is injected.[4] This method allows the animal to choose the compartment they get the drug and vehicle in. In comparison, the unbiased method does not allow the animal to choose what compartment they get the drug and vehicle in and instead the researcher chooses the compartments.
Advantages
There are numerous advantages of the conditioned place preference and aversion protocol. It is methodologically simple and only requires two to three weeks to perform all steps of the procedure.[14] In some cases conditioning can occur with two stimulus-context pairings.[16] It allows both rewarding and aversive effects to be tested and it provides unique information about the motivational effects of unconditioned stimuli.[1][14] Although the protocol is most often used with mice and rats, it can be adapted for use in other species such as birds and other rodents.[17][18]
In drug testing the conditioned reward or aversive effects can be tested in a drug-free state where the animals will not be impaired due to drug use.[14] The testing is also sensitive to the effects of low drug doses.[14] Conditioned place preference is well suited to measure the temporal profile of drugs (the pattern of rewarding and aversive effects) as well as the aversive effects of withdrawal.[15] This can be done by varying the time of drug administration in relation to presentation of the to-be-conditioned context.[19] The procedure also can be utilized to measure the neural circuits involved in drug reward.[20]
Disadvantages
The conditioned place preference and aversion protocol is subject to several disadvantages and limitations. Perhaps the most significant disadvantage is that despite experimenters' best attempts to habituate animals to the procedure before conditioning.......... "novelty seeking effects can skew the data"
What does this all mean? As it is stated in the last sentence under disadvantages......."novelty seeking effects can skew the data"
Those novelty seeking effects or unwanted effects amount to one thing....."they make you feel good.... period". It's why people take them and why they are so widely popular street drugs in general. Under the heading of effects you don't want but are still there anyway? Is just feeling good for that reason alone ie" euphoria, elation, elevated mood etc...
The reason I included all of this was to point out something that I think most people miss or are not thinking about when talking about ADHD stimulant meds. They are...by any other name.....Speed. And why do tens of thousands of people buy speed (or any of the many variations to take recreationally......because it makes you feel good.
But here's the problem that is also not brought nearly enough or at all. Without any medicinal value or for no other reason than to counter some kind of ailment or human health condition......."feeling good" is not on the accepted list of reasons to take drugs (otherwise it's illegal aside from Marijuana in a few select states).....yet, this what many people do including things drinking alcohol.
To further make this point......you can't separate the unwanted effects from the wanted effects and one of them is the one that is not mentioned (because that would be a bad thing if you take what I said about feeling good and legalized drugs not being prescribed for that reason.) I'm actually not being factitious of trying to build a case against stimulants but trying to point out that the all the beneficial effects of taking medication for ADHD include feeling good. In our case.....feeling better is more like it but that's still no the reason they tell you it's for.
Yet.....it happens too just so you know. This can be a double edged sword however and why they brought that up as confusing the results of the CCP effect that this has on humans too. (not just mice). It's really easy to feel good or better....and think you're doing fine ( back to those feelings again and following them blindly). I think you really need to be paying attention to how well your feel.....in comparison to how well you are doing. Doing as in getting things done.
Feeling better....means you will be in a better mood, happier, easier to get along and not as irritable and grouchy....since you feel good too. But again....this is not why they give it to you and not the (stated) effect or advantage. Not saying this is a bad thing at all because it's not.
I just think that the prescribers, doctors and folks who market these drugs for medicinal use are kind of blinded (or straight jacketed) by societal constructs to admit or talk about drugs that make you feel good in order to be legal or prescribe them.
If this isn't denial.....i don't know what is? Having said that.....yes, they make you feel good but if you are not aware of the difference and just following how you feel....I think you might be missing what the drug is really suppose to do and all the reasons why?
And for those of you who aren't taking these drugs or are looking for them to do things they won't do......is make a sudden permanent change that will last without it. If looking at it from that perspective.....the only immediate and noticeable change in me came from feeling better or good....for that reason alone. short term immediate change.
That's all good and fine and probably makes a person a lot easier to be around....but to get the effect that you are after and take advantage of the differentiation that it offers you from that perspective.....you need to combine the new brain chemistry change to the actions you want to make any permanent lasting change that will continue in an on going basis ie: CCP (or Pavlovian Conditioning)
I see this as separate from just feeling good as I am saying this. Both happen.....and both need to be differentiated in order not to go heading towards feeling good and thinking that this will be enough to make the real changes in the behaviors you want from it. My past drug experiences and everything I know about this....makes it easy for me to see these differences but I can't imagine someone who has never used drugs before to be able to determine which is which without that experience.
I just wanted to point out that "societal denial" part and say this because I'm not hearing this mentioned and brought up and I think it's really important that the person taking it know the difference themselves and expect "everything that happens will happen"even if they aren't saying so up front. It makes me a little irritated that something that important is not being mentioned only due to how it might sound or how they want it too appear. At the end of the day.....every drug listed above has some kind of amphetamine or methamphetamine in them and fundamentally do the same thing to you even if they've buffered them and dosed them not to.
It's still speed at the end of the day and I have found it to be a huge benefit despite the down sides that there definitely are. I think you need to be responsible about it and know exactly what you are putting in your body and know exactly why and how it is suppose to work.
And that feeling good part? ( not just getting more done and helping in all the other ways) That's probably what most people on the other side of ADHD are probably noticing the most especially right at first. For the target effect to really get engrained into someone taking it for ADHD.....this will take a little longer (years possibly not just a few months). but I also think it's important to realize....is the feeling good part will also diminish over time and that should not be looked at like something is wrong or not working when that happens. It's not the target effect after all.
In other words....this would not be a case to keep on upping your dose if that happens because that will really mess you up if you start going full steam ahead down that road.....just so you know. (talking to people with ADHD here who are taking these meds and have never taken them before)
It may not be the target effect or reason they give it too you...... but I can't really see that as a bad thing like they are so afraid of saying or admitting... For what it's worth.
J
Excersise ..Best Drug of All
Submitted by kellyj on
I wanted to point out also.....that exercise is better than any drug I have ever taken for ADHD.....hands down IMHO I also personally believe exercise by itself......is better or more effective than diet and drugs combined....that's how much better it is for me all things considered.
J
I agree w/ your statement......
Submitted by c ur self on
My experience is the same; although I think a healthy diet should be something we should all strive for...adhd or not......
C
Me three
Submitted by Delphine on
Exercise, exercise, exercise. I know I could not do without it for one day. My son has learned the importance of it also. I got him a top of the line rebounder and he is grateful. He aims to jump on it daily.
After horrific experiences with gall bladder pain, he's learned the importance of good diet, in particular fresh produce, as well.
Exercise, and a high protein
Submitted by MFrances on
Concerta.....big change in ADHD husband
Submitted by dedelight4 on
When my husband first got on Concerta, it helped, but it wasn't until the Doctor upped the
Dosage, did we see a big difference in his behavior. He was calmer, less hyperactive, could carry on more conversations with the family, smiled more, focused MUCH better, and was much more pleasant to be around in general. But, then then he would start aind stop taking it, forget to take it at all for days, and then his behavior spiraled into an up and down mood spiral. He woulnt be able to concentrate, and was short tempered.
I wish he could see the difference that WE saw. We told him how happy we were in the positive changes, but I don't think he bellieved us, because he stopped taking it.
I pray he finds an ADHD therapist, Which he promised he would do, since now we are living seperate and trying to heal without being toxic WITHIN the relationship.
The value of medications
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
I have definitely ascertained the value of medications. I have a chemical depression - an affliction affecting multiple people in my family of origin: maternal grandmother, mother, sisters, nieces and nephews. The value/benefits of medication is well known.
What antidepressant medication does for me - it helps my emotional responses stay on a level that is corresponding to what is happening in my life. I used to experiences emotional lows many times a day. If it were up to me, I would have easily slept 12-14 hours per day - if not more. Now emotional highs and lows correlate with my life events. Births of new nieces and nephews, weddings, happy announcement - those bring me extreme joy, and my elevated feeling of happiness are in sync. Deaths, major illnesses, accidents, losses - those life experiences bring me extreme sadness and emotional lows. The end result, my emotional status is fairly even - I see a fluctuation from a bit of agitation when I am hungry, angry, lonely, tired, but the major swings, slamming up into an emotional ceiling, falling deep into an emotional basement - I can now easily assign a 'reason' for it, and to this day, I am amazed at how great I feel.
Certainly I had lots of counseling/Al-Anon/reading self-help literature along with it - and it took lots of trial and error to find the right medication.
One big life change I made recently - getting a sound sleep. I did not sleep well for many years. Outside of the usual expected sleep deprivation issues with new babies, I assigned my tiredness/sleepiness to my depression. Over the past 5-6 years, I realized my sleep pattern was negatively affected by sleeping with someone who snores loudly and twitches/thrashes in their sleep. I realize in 20/20 hindsight, that was never considered in understanding my depression - I just automatically assigned depression to why I felt so tired all the time. Now I know disturbed sleep patterns were a contributing factor to my extreme tiredness/sleepiness.
How medications help a person with ADHD is not something I can clearly understand. I can not see how they feel internally. I do not see what it does to their brain. When our son was young, we could see evidence of the benefits in the improved quality of his penmanship, and his ability to stay on task in class. The biggest issue came when the Ritalin was finally out of his system at the end of the day. His agitation was not pleasant. The Afternoon Nasties were tough on him, and on us. We experienced the same thing with my spouse. Very unpleasant. Additionally, when he first used anti-depressants, for whatever reason, he chose to discontinue them - and just stopped. Did not wean himself off, by slowly lowering the dosage. I remember that weekend. I had no clue what happened, as he did not share his choice to discontinue the medication. It was very unpleasant - for him and for me. I was flabbergasted - and a bit scared - by his emotional fluctuations and anger and crying and hostility.
It did take a bit of time to get myself into a routine that kept my medication consistent. I would forget to take it it, or forget if I had already taken it. After trial and error, I got a weekly medication holder with the day of the week printed on flap of each section. Even with it being part of my morning routine - I still have to double check sometime because I do not remember if I took it or not! I do not have ADHD! So, there you have it. . . .it is not just people with ADHD who have trouble keeping track of their medications.
I recently started taking Vitamin D. Amazingly helpful in relieving the afternoon tiredness I deal with in the winter months - Seasonal Affect Disorder. And this gal, she takes her Vitamin D in the form of Vitamin Gummies. Enjoyable, And altogether fun.
Sincerely, Liz
thanks Liz
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Thank you Liz for an informative post. I have tried the daily dose contraption with my husband but he said it was a waste and stupid idea, he didnt need it. Maybe he will try it again, if get another one, since its been a while and hes making a few consessions here and there now that we are apart.
Or. . . . . . . . .
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Maybe he will try it again, if get another one, . . . . . .
If he thinks/thought it was a stupid idea, is there something that changed that would cause you to think it would be a welcome intervention from you? If he is not asking for help to maintain his medication, I dare suggest you may find it less frustrating for yourself if you mention it, and let him get one if he wants one?!
There are so many things I had to stop monitoring and thinking it was up to me to be in charge of for my spouse. My spouse monitors his own supplements and meds. He gets up and goes to bed at his own set time. He eats meals on his own schedule. For his construction business, he returns business calls, schedules jobs, invoices and makes decisions. If he asks, I share my opinion.
One of my favorite quotes, and I have quite a handful:
"When the pain of staying the same, gets greater than the pain of change, then he'll/you'll change."
I would not purposely do anything hurtful to my spouse to manipulate him into changing. If it is important to him, he'll find a way.
I have tried to reword this post, as it seems harsh - - - - but it is just straight forward. The right thing to do sometimes sees harsh. It is not mean spirited. We gotta let go. . . . . . . . .
Very truly,
Liz
thank you Liz again
Submitted by dedelight4 on
I in no way took this as a harsh post. You reminded me that this is something I need not do, THANK YOU. Its been so many years of him bombarding me about things that would show him that I "care" about him. It's going to take a while to break old habits. These things were usually small things like this, but it usually turned out as a rejection from him. It's like he wanted me to do caring things for him, only so he could reject it. (Passive aggressive maybe) (agressive agressive maybe) but whatever, it's not healthy for either of us. Thanks for the reminder, say so anytime.