Hello,
I have been married for 5 years and known my husband for over 10 years now. I have always had my doubts and have been doing enough research, talking to his parents, friends and observing and I have realised over the years that a lot of his patterns and our issues in our relationship suggest that he is showing signs of ADHD. He has self-diagnosed himself as 'dyslexic' as it seems to be easy enough and more glamourous diagnosis as he is a creative professional but he refuses to get assessed for it or if I ever mentioned ADHD he would have one of those massive anger outbursts that I am too scared to risk. How do I even go about doing anything about it as I am getting more and more certain that that is what it is. I understand that obvious answer is to find the right moment to talk but he NEVER ever wants to talk about anything that is even vaguely uncomfortable for him. I can never bring up this. Is there anything else I can do?
Thank you
Comments
Yes there is....You can accept it.....
Don't make your life's goal (the rest of your life) to change or even understand the way your spouse's mind works....Make your life's goal to live a loving, responsible adult life...Whether he exists as your spouse are not, your own actions is what will determine the quality of your future....
Believe what you see, he show's you who he is everyday, and in every way...Defensiveness, and out bursts as it relates to his actions and behaviors, that is common for minds in denial of their true selves...(The one the spouse experiences) Set boundaries in the area's you know he can never be trusted, (things as simple as seeing himself, and being able to discuss it) and move forward with wise living principles....
It definitely doesn't mean we don't love our spouses when we refuse to support behaviors that are unwise or possibly destructive to our futures.....It just means we aren't going to allow ourselves to be drug down an unwise and destructive road, just because our spouse choose's it....
All marriages relationships are different...We should Never try to force our relationships to mirror what we call the statues quo....That will always end in disaster for one or both spouses....Many of us have to set boundaries on ourselves to not take part in things, many married couples have no problem sharing in....And when we selfishly try (dislike the restriction of the boundaries) we pay for it....
Acceptance of reality!
Blessings, I hope you can find a peaceful way for yourself.....
c
Thank you
Yes, I totally totally agree with you and that is the direction I have taken especially over the last couple of years as I realised expecting him to change or expecting anything to change in my life due to anything external is not fruitful. I have been able to be more calm, loving and non-responsive due to the work I have done on myself. I still would love it if he would look inwards a little as it will not only help me and us but him personally too.
Forcing accountability....
I understand; isn't it nice when everyone is looking internally:)...(Ownership) But we can't do that for each other...But, we can take charge of our own lives, set boundaries, and put our foot down with in our own heart and mind, about what we will and want take part in....
Defiance usually breeds defiance...It can become a pissing contest...Also, fear and egg shells have to go first....Be the person you were created to be...Stand up for yourself if you want to force accountability...It doesn't have to be a show!...It should be you calmly showing him by your actions..Healthy marriage relationships cannot exist if it's not two people showing love, honor and respect..Period!...Never say things you don't mean and are not willing to follow up on....
You will find that many many adhders (fast minded people) have creative or artistic talents....You will also find many who refuse to work for others...They know they want step up in timeliness and rule following enough to hold a job....
You can't have a healthy attachment with someone who refuses to discipline their lives in that area...But non-participation when the fruit of the effort is one sided and chaos producing will get their attention...Adhd minded people can be very self absorbed, especially if another adult (us) is making their lives easy...Just be wise, and stand the ground of love, but always quietly walk away from dysfunction or intrusive or abusive behavior...You are not his toy, many spouses have to learn that....Married life is about the two, never just about one....
If we don't get off the merry-go-round, we are just another part of the problem!...Quietly and wisely be the solution:)
c
Accept it?
While I agree with much of your reply I think, in my case specifically, that's not so easy. Our daughter, who may also have ADHD needs her parents together and functioning. Our marriage issues need clarity and a diagnosis could help so much. However after years of seeing therapists my wife is sick of them and just wants me to accept her for who she is.
I sometimes wonder if she secretly hopes I will walk away as I don't believe she is happy with the situation either but would never seek a divorce herself. That way she could blame me whereas a diagnosis would put ADHD on the table, not as a reason for our difficulties but as something that could be managed.
Currently we're drifting between rage and indifference and our daughter sees it all.
A diagnosis won't change your situation
You need participation from your wife and she is either unwilling or unable to give you. You need to have a difficult discussion about what you want, where you feel your problems can be corrected, and how you can get there. You should consider doing this with a therapist. She may not want to change, or try new things, or even want to work on this at all. Try and prepare yourself for this and think about the future you want for yourself (which may be without her). As you mentioned, your daughter is seeing everything which is bad.
agreed
My wife got diagnosed and DID put forth some minimal effort, but still truly has no idea how those symptoms impacted me. It ended up being that she would just use the newfound label as another tool to be a victim and consequently blame me for my responses to her behavior.
To your point about "she may not want to change"--- we sat there in a couple's therapy session and the therapist made a suggestion about how to improve things, and she literally said, "I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO CHANGE!"....
needless to say, i'm divorced.
No Magic
I am not expecting miracles with a diagnosis. I already live with the affects of (possible) ADHD in my marriage and a diagnosis won't change that, unless she then decides to try medication, which may or may not help. It is the RSD though that I'd like her to consider. It is her who is pushing me away because she feels I have not supported her enough. I think she has overreacted and an understanding of RSD might help her see that I do.
RSD
Because I was looking to de-escalate conflict and stop the cycle with my ADHD wife, I learned as much as I could about non-violent communication. (i'd recommend that book).
while most professionals will recommend softer language like, "when you (blank), i feel (blank)", I even edited my own language not to use the word "you", as it can unintentionally sound accusatory.
Important conversations were by appointment only.
We had "safe" words (not the fun kind).
I would simply say "ouch" if i felt hurt, rather than unintentionally put her on the defense by lecturing, criticizing, etc.
We were too far gone and I think we saw each other (unconsciously) as a threat at that point. It's good to remind myself how absurd it was. After 2 years, my nervous system is still on red-alert from having been interrupted and jolted so many thousands of times during the conflict.
The one thing I was not able to do was simply walk away if I didn't like the behavior I saw. I felt like I had to control it. big mistake. I just gave her the negative attention she wanted to play out her daddy issues while I played out mine. Very destructive, and almost impossible to stop once the habits are instantiated.
I don't know if these suggestions help any, but I need to remind myself of how insane that was when I pine for her.
good luck.
Very helpful....
...but kind of reflects my feelings about where my marriage is going. I'm not sure we can actually rewind now, too far down the road but I still love her and I hope with some insight we can both do better in future, at least for the sake of our daughter.
It was very difficult for me
It was very difficult for me to have conversations with my then-husband (who has ADHD among other things) because of RSD. Basically, anything I said that could possibly be interpreted as criticism made him, in his words, feel bad about himself, so then if I persisted in trying to communicate about the difficult subjects, I was the bad person. Damned if I talked, damned if I didn't (because we couldn't use talking to resolve any of our problems).
She needs her parents functioning, sure.
I am the ADHD partner in my marriage. I was only diagnosed recently because our daughter received a diagnosis at school. However after 10 years of marriage, I have been the root cause of a LOT of problems.
It took until it was too late, when my wife told me it was time for her to walk away, for me to truly take a step back to actually deeply understand the hurt and pain I have inflicted. And whilst I am getting treatment now I am only beginning a long path to being a better father, not a better husband.
My wife brought up in a conversation we had recently that her therapist asked her a great question "What would she want our daughter to do if she was in the same situation?" and the answer she gave is that she would want her daughter to get herself out of that. She's right.
It was a hard truth for me to hear, but I completely agree. Our daughter should be able to get herself out of such a horrible dysfunctional relationship.
But that left me thinking. What kind of example do we send to her if we try to stay together and make it work as others around my wife (including myself) have been pressuring her to consider?
"We must stay together because it would be better for the children." Is it? Really? When my daughter grows up knowing her parents stayed together unhappy trying to protect her, what example does that give her to reference in her future relationships? And what example does it set for me that despite my sins I should be forgiven if I "make a bit more effort"? Why should it work like this? Why should her feelings as the non-ADHD spouse be invalidated and my bad behaviour be swept under the rug?
But also we split apart so fully that we have trouble communicating and raising our daughter as co-parents... what example does that send to her also? Would that risk her being afraid to get out of a similar situation herself in the future because of any children?
The example that I hope that we can set is that we both work hard at being the best parents we can be to her. And we work hard to show her that
- My daughter does not need to stay in a relationship that is not healthy for her;
- Regardless how hard someone might work on themselves to change for the better (or not) that does not mean that the other person needs to take them back, or forgive their past sins.
- That even if there are children involved, my daughter should have no fear of the challenges ahead; because she knows that there are tools and methods to co-parent successfully and healthily without her being trapped in a toxic "love relationship" with a partner who isn't right.
This is 2023, we don't need to be a traditional marriage to parent children. We don't need parents to hold smile and hands at public gatherings and "fake it" for the world around just for the benefit of saving face. Everyone else around, but especially the children will see through that facade and come to resent it.
Denial is easier when there is an easy option (especially for someone like me with untreated ADHD), maybe I wouldn't have had this realisation if my wife and I had continued together, maybe I would have been tempted to not put in the effort that I need to to get myself in order. But now I have the regrets and the pain from knowing that I broke her heart too many times; and I can either allow that to consume me or I can use as an eternal fire to push me to put in the efforts needed to be the best father for our daughter.
It is going to need communication and honesty between both parents. And it is going to need both of us to work hard on being the best of ourselves we can be.
It also needs us to both respect each other, our child, but especially to learn how to respect ourselves.
Much of this resonates except
Much of this resonates except the "sin" bit ADHD is not sinful and that certainly wouldn't be the message I want to send my daughter into life with.
But yes it may be too late for our marriage
Thank you for your reply and good luck.
Sorry, I didn't mean that ADHD was sinful.
ADHD is not at all sinful, it is just a different way of thinking. However, a person with uncontrolled ADHD symptoms are just like anyone else who isn't in control of themselves... they are... "out of control"
And out of control behaviour can lead to sinful actions. This is the sin to which I was referring.
I am thinking of it like this. Just as in life, ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law. Ignorance of my ADHD is no excuse for the actions I did because I was "out of control", still my responsibility and I need to deal with the consequences whilst sorting myself out.
An analogy I am currently working on to explain this thinking is a car.
When my partner met me it was like she was meeting someone driving a cool car (my ADHD).
I was a person driving and she talked to me and agreed to come into the car for the ride; to put her trust in me as the driver. And sure, the drive was great... it is a really cool, and fun car. And the conversations we have on the journey are wonderful and makes both driver and passenger feel really happy. I want to drive with her forever.
However, the car actually has very dodgy breaks, and sometimes will steer in random directions. It needs regular maintenance to make sure it remains fun, but always drives straight and true.
I don't know this about the car, nor does she. She assumes that the strange issues with how it drives sometimes is a problem with my driving and she gets angry with me.
I can't help what the car is doing and am upset at her being angry at me; we no longer have the wonderful conversations; the car is silent; the journey stops being fun.
The issues with the car get worse, and worse. She isn't even bothering to admonish me anymore, or notice, just closes her eyes, arms folded. She wishes the journey would end, that she had never gotten into my car.
The car crashes into a tree, we are both injured badly. Finally someone tells me about the car problems and I realise. I take it to the garage and work hard to get it repaired. I intend to keep up the maintenance.
But she is still injured. She is still angry. Her trust is still broken, shattered. Our communication has still ended. She will never trust me to drive the car with her as the passenger again.
I might not be to blame for the damage, it was the car being out of control. However, I am still the driver. I am still the person responsible for getting that car checked, making sure it has been maintained properly, and that it always steers true.
I am still responsible for the damage that was caused to my relationship. Yes, maybe if she had approached me differently than with anger and blame then maybe she could have helped advise me to take the car to a garage before it was too late. But this is just maybes, what happened has happened as much as I wish I could, I cannot change the past; the consequences are the consequences.
I pray that for your relationship that your partner can be encouraged to keep their car maintained before it is too late. The ADHD car is fun and always amazing to ride with.
But you also need to remember you need to protect yourself. If the driver of the car is willing to work on repair to ensure their car is being maintained, then it may go out of control. Whoever is in the car at that time will get injured. That includes not just your partner as the driver, but also you, and also your daughter.
Remember, getting out of their car; even going as far as divorce; doesn't stop you getting back in again in the future; as long as you can trust they are properly maintaining that car it could be a great journey.
Accept the reality of your different minds...
(Currently we're drifting between rage and indifference and our daughter sees it all.) This statement is one I could have made many many times over my 15 year marriage...Until I decided to leave...IF, we couldn't stop the anger, arguments etc....
My wife's living of life and my own is no where close to the same...I'm not going to bore you with a huge list, because it sounds like you are living it....But until your mind STOPS placing expectations on her MIND to do life (thoughts, feelings, & behaviors) like yourself, the above statement will continue...The reason the rage and indifference is so prominent in your relationship is because of your refusal to ACCEPT her disability, mental illness, or what ever you desire to call it...When men and women all over the globe have, for all practical purposes, the same stories about the behaviors of their ADD spouses, rest assured it's not a mind that is free to choose...Most of them or filled w/ shame, and abhor a lot of their own actions...
I suggest you step back, and be the fly on the wall....Contemplate the boundaries you will need to keep your life free from the intrusiveness, and abuse....It is different for each of us, based on the day to day realities we endure...Also don't forget yourself...Your anger, your bitterness, your hurtful words, all belong to you...You may be thinking, they all came about attempting to live with my wife...That is only partly true...They come about by non acceptance of a mind we will never understand, and thankfully never have to experience....Most ADD minds have plenty of struggles even as single men and women....The reason so many of us spouses fill these sites, is because of what happen's just trying to live OUR NORMAL, and EXPECTING the same for someone who will NEVER be able to.....Acceptance of her reality will change what your precious child is being subjected to....With proper boundaries you can focus on loving them both, and just being thankful....Good boundaries are the one's we place on ourselves....They are restricting, but, they will force accountability on a spouse who is use to being lazy toward their responsibilities....
I will pray for your family....
c
Hit rock bottom
Unfortunately, it often takes hitting rock bottom. My wife has previously seen "experts" who did not know anything about ADULT ADHD and therefore dismissed my concerns when they said either she does not have or, even worse yet, one how says she does not "believe in diagnoses."
A parenting coach/family therapist who we had last year had lots of experience working with special needs adults and she said that she also saw signs of ADHD in my wife.
I went to the CHADD website and found someone who is the head of a local chapter. My wife has agreed to see her, but this has happened after a big rock bottom event--our daughter was hospitalized for the second time in less than a month for mental and emotional health issues, including ingesting hand sanitizer. My wife's impulsivity and inability to listen has created a lot of conflict which has contributed to our daughter's problems. She forgets all about the parenting advice from experts such as the parenting coach. She won't listen when I try to deescalate the situation, only to blame me for "not doing anything" once she makes the problem much worse. The fight becomes an end in itself. Even the marriage counselor who advertised herself as an adult ADHD expert but does not believe in diagnoses has repeatedly told her that she should listen to me when I try to deescalate.
Our daughter said that things have to change before she comes home. My wife scoffed at this, but I laid out how her behaviors were indeed aggravating our daughter's problems. I also explained why I saw hope in an ADHD diagnoses--I had feared that her symptoms might have been the result of Borderline Personality Disorder.
"Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was 'Oh no, not again.'"--Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
bowlofpetunias - Hand sanitizer FYI
bowlofpetunias - Check the sanitizer packaging. I just happened to see this in the news. FYI. Your daughter is not the only one to have injested hand sanitizer.
"The US Food and Drug Administration is warning consumers about alcohol-based hand sanitizers being packaged in containers that look like food or drink packaging.
“The agency has discovered that some hand sanitizers are being packaged in beer cans, children’s food pouches, water bottles, juice bottles and vodka bottles,” a news release from the agency said. “Additionally, the FDA has found hand sanitizers that contain food flavors, such as chocolate or raspberry.”
The FDA received a report from a consumer who bought what they thought was drinking water, but was actually hand sanitizer, the release says. There was also a report of a hand sanitizer product that used children’s cartoons in marketing that came in a pouch that resembled a snack."
Thank you
I read your other posts too, I really admire you for sticking by. My child and the treatment he gets from my husband (who is completely unaware of the effect of his actions on our son) are a sore point for me. I am really wishing that he would be able to change a bit, otherwise their relationship will sour soon. Our child is only 5, so not yet realising the meaning of thoughtless commentary that comes from my husband much but I keep doing damage control and I am afraid I cannot do that much longer as he grows and understands more. I am also hoping that may be our son would finally be the catalyst for it all to change.
Having kids aggravated the ADHD
ADHD led my wife to think that being a perfect mother would come easy. But the more she tried for what SHE thought of as "perfect mother", the more angry she became. For example, our kids (daughter and son five years apart) were supposed to be BEST FRIENDS! Yeah, right. Every time they fought, it set her off because it "was not supposed to" be happening. In fact, the fight over the restaurant started after I came back to the car at a restop and my wife was enraged by the kids fighting--like kids do. Then came the "Ready, Fire, Aim!" The rage got redirected toward me. In general, the demands of parenting put more stress on those with ADHD, making their symptoms worse. She also had a very narcissistic mother and I believe her rejection sensitive dysphoria compels her to be the perfect mother to show her mother she is worthy--even though her mother has been dead for a few years now. ADHD also contributed to my wife pressuring our son to do theater--her passion--even when he was clearly no longer enjoying it. He brings this up often, so it did cause lasting damage to their relationship.
"Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was 'Oh no, not again.'"--Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
'massive anger outbursts' are rage
In my experience the 'massive anger outbursts' you've encountered seemed more accurately called 'rage'. I do not consider this semantics. 'Rage' is deeper, far less rational, and dangerous. I had decades of trying to redirect any contentious issue in an attempt to avoid the very quick launch into spitting rage. Any time my ex-wife seemed to perceive she was being disrespected or criticized she would go ballistic. The transition could be almost instantaneous. I could never be sure what particular issue would act as a trigger. Seemingly minor things could immediately explode. Not dealing with this repeated behavior is one of the few benefits I've had from getting divorced.
I agree.
I agree. "Massive anger outbursts" are rage.
I spent the last 10 years of my marriage walking on eggshells, afraid to set him off. I lived with fear and anxiety, knowing anything could trigger his rage. Glad he is now an ex, he can deal with his own issues.
Yes
Yes, it is rage, I get it and it comes from a place of complete irrationality and totally unexpected. I am trying not to react to it but it is hard and scary!
Rage
Rage is why ADHD is sometimes misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder or borderline personality disorder (also know as emotional dysregulation disorder). People with ADHD often also suffer from rejection sensitive dysphoria. 4 to 5 years ago, my wife's rages against me reached the point where I was seriously considering divorce. Validating her emotions (recognizing them, not saying they are correct) helped. She still gets into a lot of rages wtih the kids. She does not listen to them, and then invalidates their emotions. Also, she gets provoked because they kids do not validate her emotions. It's the perfect storm--one that I have compared to walking into a tornado and trying to reason with it. She finally has an appointment with a actual adult ADHD expert--the chair of a local CHADD chapter--next week. Our daughter has been hospitalized for mental and emotional health issues twice recently. The stress of fights with my wife have contributed to this, so it is really, really important to finally get her to take action to control her rages. I have often compared fighting with my wife to dogs fighting. One dog will instinctively show the other dog its belly, effectively communicating, "Yes, you can kill me, but we both know that you won't actually kill me now that I surrendered." This does not work with my wife. You can completely surrender and she just keeps going for the belly. This then creates the believe in those she is attacking that they have to fight to the end because there is no other option. It was very hard for me to get past that reaction and detach myself. I need to be able to stop internalizing her rage and criticism and recognized that the rage was because there was something wrong with her, not with me. I am not responsible for proving my innocence to her or for getting her to calm down. Attempts to do so are futile. She once picked a restaurant and then started a fight because I wanted to eat at a restaurant we could not afford! I did not even know which one we were going to! Her rage was so strong that the fact that SHE chose the expensive restaurant did not matter. It then shifted to lambasting me for "getting defensive" when she was yelling and screaming at me. All this happened in the car with our kids. It eventually grew to her blaming me for her getting off the highway and driving and driving without any idea where she was going so we got lost.
"Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was 'Oh no, not again.'"--Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Goodluck
I hope that something shifts for you. I am not sure if I would be able to stick around and display the patience if my child suffered so much. I am really fearful of that and that is the only thing I really care at the moment, minimising impact on my child!
Goodluck with everything!
Thanks, but our daughter did
Thanks, but our daughter did not ingest hand sanitizer by accident. She had done this at least once before and she had been talking about it before she got sent to the ER. At the ER, she went up to a clearly labeled, wall-mounted hand sanitizer dispenser and ingested some.
"Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was 'Oh no, not again.'"--Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Plus a diagnosis help or building skill be more practical
You mentioned he has dyslexia and possible ADHD, and how many times I've been told ADHD doesn't show up solo, which is so true, and he may have both. But ADHD isn't a detriment; it's a thing that can mean skills can be built around areas needing support. It's also possible to build skills anyway without a diagnosis, and the more you harp on him having this the more likely he will bulk the other way, best to lay it to rest and accept maybe he does have it but won't accept it. So, what now? Maybe find support in ensuring you aren't putting more on yourself and letting him off the hook. ADHD is a brain based challenge, but not cancer, he can learn to do things just maybe at a different level/difficulty.
What can you do: have a convo about your feelings and needs, get clear on what you want for your relationship and then if he isn't showing up ask how he can show up and also how you'd like him to. Hold him to it without shame, this goes for any marriage, but do not let him slide bc of ADHD. Objectives don't change but maybe how you get there does. Also, get yourself canned phrases to avoid those outbursts, there's no excuse for that, and if he is doing this whether it's overstimulation or triggers from something deeper, you should not need to be there for it or take it. Something simple like, "We can talk later, I'm not going to be shouted at." Or, "Please don't tell, bc I won't hear you like you need."
As loving as it is to want him to get help through diagnosis, leading him to it won't work in the way you think. It might be more helpful to simply find ways to help your marriage with tools for ADHD spouses and let him find his way to the ADHD fountain.
These are simply suggestions that I've had given to myself with my ADHD spouse, and I also have ADHD (which actually makes our marriage harder than easier...). Maybe you've done them, but keep trying and don't discount him just yet, ADHD is different for many, and we struggle, but we can learn just like anyone else, it just needs some differentiation.
ADHD x2