Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on 02/07/2014.
It sure appears to me that my ADHD spouse can be late - but cannot tolerate others being late.
Can neglect returning phone calls for days or even weeks - but cannot tolerate others not returning his calls to them.
Can forget to do something and it is excusable - but cannot tolerate others forgetting to do things.
Can snarl or bark in anger - but feels attacked if someone snarls or barks at him.
Calls other professionals to 'check-up' on someone we hire, but finds it highly offensive if anyone would seek a second opinion on a job he is doing - he works construction.
I surely am at the point where I do not know where the ADHD ends and poor manners begin.
social perception
Submitted by jennalemon on
Yes. When I try to talk to dh about things that married partners must talk about, he tells me I should "say" it nicer. I have been told that my voice is very soft and low by others and I was raised with manners. I wish I would have raised my voice more emphatically when we were first married so that my boundaries might have been heard a little bit MORE. He, on the other hand, uses profanity and vulgarities in normal conversation and he thinks he is being funny, so many times there are harsh words to come from his mouth that I would not think of using. His look and voice are threatening when talking to me and he speaks sarcastically to me. It seems to me that my dh has a perspective of entitlement. Anything I say to him that is not a joke, he tries to turn around as me criticising him. I am starting to see that he uses this style to make me retreat so that he does not have to deal with anything, believing that I will just deal with it. I believe now that it is a way of controlling the conversation and "getting out of" doing something he would rather not do or deal with. Then believing that he has "won". I will call it ADD-induced warfare - protecting his ego at all costs. He is critical of everyone and everything else but cannot see his own faults...calling people losers, hosers, dipsticks and #$%&(*^s. I have often thought that when we married, I joined a team and he declared war.
I am reading "The Catcher in the Rye" right now. I am constantly seeing my dh in the main 16-year-old character. The book is about adolescent/early adulthood angst. Dh talks and thinks like the narrator - very juevenile, self centered and irresponsible. I believe dh has not matured since he was 16 years old and is still rebelling against his mother (me) and society (political rampages).
"A house divided against itself cannot stand." Abe Lincoln.
entitlement
Submitted by crossingfingers... on
That there is a sense of entitlement is a really interesting way of looking at things. It sounds like your dh feels entitled not to be criticized, which would be all well and good if it didn't conflict with your entitlement to your feelings, and to having them heard for what they are.
Similarly with seeming to have different standards for what he expects other people to do v. what is okay that he does: he may feel entitled to have people respond to him the way he wants them to. That is certainly how my bf is, and I have no idea why he thinks he can control people's reactions. His sense of entitlement (to not be criticized, misinterpreted, to not have to feel a way he doesn't want to or discuss something he doesn't want to) trumps my hurt feelings and opinions almost all of the time. It's easy for us to get along when things go according to how he wants his fantasy world to be, which seems to be one he is at the center of. Does my bf not understand how other people's feelings work, and how making room for them is essential in social/intimate interactions?
As with social skills (to speak to some comments below), I think that entitlement is mostly learned too. It reminds me of how a young child gets upset when things don't go the way they want them to. When my bf can't deal, he storms away and puts us in a temporary time out until he cools down. Somehow he blames me.
Entitlement versus control
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
crossing. . .,
So much of trying to uncoil this situation I got myself into is based on my feeling controlled. Oiy! This feeling I know. I allowed myself to be controlled right into developing eating disorders to deal with the emotional stress early in my 20s,. I was a people-pleaser. Everyone else's wishes before mine. LOL, even then, my spouse HATED that I let people push me around! I really don't know why I find that so humorousness today, but I do :)
I was controlled by my spouse's anger for many years. I was just too blind to see it. If he didn't get his way on big decisions, he would act like a selfish brat until I changed my mind. I THOUGHT I was being a good wife. "Gosh, if it means THAT much to him, why not just bend." And I did.
But the controlling - geez, any emotional response I had to his mistakes, or his forgetting, or his being late - those he excused away with "I did not intend to hurt you by being late, so you are not allowed to be hurt." "I don't want to discuss it because you will get upset."
Technically, his behavior is that of a sort of a big ol' bully.
What to do, what to do, what to do. . . . . . . . . I wanna run away, I wanna run away, I wanna run away. . . . . .
The feelings rulebook
Submitted by crossingfingers... on
Hi I'm So Exhausted,
I am sorry to hear about your experience with an eating disorder, I'm sure that must have been difficult.
It's really interesting that you contrast entitlement with control. Now that I think about it, it is pretty controlling of someone not to be able to allow someone else to have their feelings and to make them feel responsible for the other person's feelings. My bf has said the same thing about his mistakes/forgetting/being late--he didn't do it on purpose, so I shouldn't be upset. The latest defense from him is that he doesn't have to listen to my feelings about his time management/communication if he doesn't like what I am saying. (Great idea for improving communication, right?) He also tells me that I should just accept him the way he is because he is going to be this way forever, and shouldn't have any expectations that he can do better. So basically, I should have low expectations so I can never be disappointed. If I did that, it would offend him and he would still get mad at me for not expecting more of him! And "life is too short" to listen to my feelings, even though he debates them and perpetuates arguments.
I am trying to not let his behavior affect how I feel. It is controlling to be told I have to feel a certain way otherwise he won't listen to me. His self-esteem must be so low that he can't tolerate being "a disappointment," even though I don't call him that. He still lives with his parents/siblings, who still lecture him on his shortcomings. He takes what I say as a personal attack even though I don't speak to his personality. He can't see past his own feelings when it comes to mine, and since he doesn't know how to handle his, he puts rules on how I can feel. Frankly I don't understand it. I don't know what to do during these standoffs.
Thanks for helping me think this through :) I am so tired of feeling responsible for his funk just because I have human emotions and reactions.
Bad manners
Submitted by sunlight on
Seems to me that you're not describing something general to ADHD.
My husband and some in his family are very ADHD but all are polite and gracious unless in the grip of the ADHD. I mean in 'normal' professional and social circumstances such as you describe. Even in social circumstances where they are totally and utterly clueless about the havoc they are creating (and everyone else is backing away or rolling their eyes) they are still polite (unless confronted by somebody who really gets in their face). Fur really flies when they are confined and frustrated. Now my husband will admit to getting into fights with a university room-mate but that seems to be equally possibly down to two young assertive energetic males having to share a small space because they didn't have enough money to have their own places.
Self Awareness
Submitted by jennalemon on
Yes, Good manners and vernacular are leaned habits. Sorry to have lumped it together with ADD. Sorry, I was wrong to include that in this forum.
But back to So Exhusted's question, Is a lack of self awareness an ADD trait? As in seeing the blame and faults of others but not the same blame and faults in themselves?
Is it denial?
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
jennalemomon and sunlight,
In most social situations, he is very kind, polite and reserved. Stuffs his emotions and lets them run rampant at home where only myself or our adult children can see - if they happen to be here.
I learned it is not up to me to point out his shortcomings. They surely drive a marriage further and further apart when there is not a way to confront issues. What I have is this: Shut up and back away. The symptom-response-response cycle is so deeply engrained into our communication patterns - all I can do at this point is remove myself when the symptom shows itself.
Sounds familiar
Submitted by Ajay on
Sounds familiar.
Each of us has our blind spots, but I had to laugh yesterday. After my wife received her diagnosis of ADD, we were sitting down and discussing it at home when she said out of the blue, "You know the way you stack the dishwasher really makes me anxious."
I was gobsmacked. I do almost all the dishwashing. My wife often won't, and when she does, often I end up redoing half or more of her load because it's still dirty from the way she stacks the dishwasher, which is, to be polite, not systematic on the face of it. So to hear her say that the way I stack the dishwasher makes her anxious had me speechless and then helpless in surprised laughter because it just seemed to me so lacking in self-awareness, as you say.
When I collected myself I apologised and asked her for details. I won't go into them except to say I found them puzzling.
So there you go. My wife, who doesn't often stack the dishwasher and who when she does often does it semi-ineffectively, criticised the way I stack the dishwasher.
Unproductive
Submitted by jennalemon on
Yes, it is odd - about your dishwasher. My dh is a hoarder. Our garage is like a junk pile except on my side where I keep that orderly and clean. He has not been able to park his car in the garage for 20 years. Yet, he will "re-organize" the dishes I have put in the dishwasher and tell me I don't do it right. He will go through my trash and tell me that I do not throw away the trash correctly. He spends an inordinate time "taking apart the trash" but never gets to throwing it away. It is odd to me and very unproductive.
Your garage sounds like our bedroom!
Submitted by Ajay on
Hmm...so both our SOs feel anxious about the way we stack the dishwasher. Interesting.
Your garage sounds like our bedroom! I clean my bedside regularly. My wife's side of the room is a blizzard of candy wrappers, Band Aid wrappers, used Kleenex, shoes, socks and underwear, bags of odds and ends...yet she nags me when I leave clothes at the foot of the bed.
Like your dh, my wife never (well - hardly ever) gets to throwing stuff away, although she makes great plans for it. (It's taking up the back verandah at the moment - it migrates.) Soon after I took over our finances, I hired a skip to dump the junk which was rendering our study unusable (kind of like your dh's side of the garage). We came to an agreement about what would go and what would stay. My wife spent almost all her time in the study, reorganising what she was keeping, while I did the heavy lifting. I found oodles of my things which she had squirreled away without telling me and forgotten about. And what have I heard from her ever since? How she cleaned out the study.
Living in his brain
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
My spouse has often cried out in despair, "You have no idea what it is like to live in my head." So I truly get it is a brain wired differently than mine.
The trouble comes when conflict arises. Conflict resolution.
Some things are easy such as - I will load the dishwasher my way, and you load it your way. When either of us is adding dirty dishes to a partially filled machine, we are free to move things around so we can better fit more into it for a full wash. After they cleaning cycle runs, dishes that did not get clean can be re-washed with the next load. And in the end, the disagreements ended when my spouse stopped doing any domestic chores. Oh, he will get dishes out of the cupboard to eat off them, but they will not be cleaned by him.
I know just what you mean
Submitted by Ajay on
I know just what you mean about disagreements ending when we do all the chores ourselves. I exhausted myself that way.
The experiences we all seem to have in common with each other, regarding our partners, gives me confidence that our partners' AD(H)D contributes to their social skill deficits.
A few weeks ago, after reading about how ADHD behaviour can improve when structure is there as a support, I sat down with my wife and got her input into a chore chart which she then put up in the kitchen. I was amazed at how she took to doing her set of chores then. She says she likes the sense of achievement of ticking off the boxes after she does something.
Structure
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Ajay,
This is something I realized when we discovered ADHD - when my son was in elementary school - almost 20 years ago.
He flourished in well defined structure.
He attended Automotive Tech College when he graduated from high school. They had rules they enforced. His hair could not reach his collar. He had to tuck in his shirt. He had to wear safety shoes. 10 minutes after 8 am, the school doors were locked, and if you were not on time, you had to miss the rest of the day.
My son had a 65 minute drive each way. Winters were a bear. He graduated at the top of his class.
I witnessed how well a person can flourish when ADHD is identified and accepted and addressed. That is why I am losing hope that my spouse will choose to change. . . . . so engrained in his behaviors. . . . . it is sad to watch,
OK
Submitted by Ajay on
OK. Your husband doesn't accept he has ADHD, then?
Yes. . . . .however he doesn't see negative behaviors
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Yes, he does. Un - addressed for 57 years. He had a full diagnostic screening at the Cleveland clinic about 3 years ago. On a 1 to 10 scale, his symptoms put him at a 9. Very intense. He was told it is a disability -
He wants it fixed. He is told, "You are not broken, you just need to address some things that have disrupted your life and, as a result also that of your family." He thinks we are ganging up on him and the issue is I expect him to be perfect.
He cannot grasp how his poor executive function skills have lead to chaos in our marriage.
He is stuck in the mode of "If I didn't do it on purpose, it is not a problem. If I didn't intend to hurt your feelings, they cannot be hurt."
Cannot break through to him.
I'm so sorry to hear that
Submitted by Ajay on
I'm so sorry to hear that.
There's a YouTube video which really helped my wife understand more about her ADD. I have no idea whether it might reach your husband but I would feel bad if I didn't mention it to you.
It's part of a lecture by professor of psychiatry Russell Barkley in which he explains his understanding that the inactivity of the anterior cingulate cortex in ADHD people impedes their motivating themselves to achieve social goals. He emphasises that the lack of activity in that part of the brain prevents the forming of the appropriate intention.
Here's the link.
Wow
Submitted by jennalemon on
That is worthwhile to watch. Especially if you have a child with ADD/ADHD. I will be taking the time to watch more of Russell Barkley.
"Look what I did!"
Submitted by jennalemon on
This is interesting about your wife organizing what she wanted to keep rather than helping to clean out the study. "We" cleaned up/out/touch up our large house and yard for real estate showings getting it ready to sell last summer. Dh's only contribution was he would clean out the garage. A month later I talked to him about it. He said with great self-satisfaction for himself and great annoyance with me, "Look, I made a carrier with wheels to hold some of the wood scraps!" That is as far as he got with his portion of the cleaning. He thought the job was done even though he has literally 50 empty cases of beer, 30 pails of rust, piles of sooty papers on top of misplaced tools and reel to reels, tapes and tape decks, musty, moldy magazines, newspapers and gizmos, machines and motors (that he is slowly removing all the screws and parts so that he can separate the parts to throw them away correctly - he thinks he is recycling, but he never recycles). Daily, he sits amid this array of stuff and drinks beer and smokes cigars. We have not sold the house. It seems he is sabotaging the move yet does not work enough to be able to afford the house and our retirement.
I write because I have been in denial for so long, I have to put these things here and then read them another time to see the chaos I have actually been living in.
Oh dear!
Submitted by Ajay on
Oh dear!
I'm grateful you put these things here. Reading your experiences makes me laugh in recognition.
It is hard to know when ADHD
Submitted by MFrances on
It is hard to know when ADHD ends and an undesirable character trait begins. My dh is the same as yours and others on this post. Lack of self awareness is a trait of ADHD. That is clear in all the books I've read. It helped to know that to understand my husband's selfish behavior, but he is still selfish. When does lack of self awareness end and just not being a loving, caring person begin. There are things that he has done that have hurt me greatly, is that just his ADHD or is he just not a loving person. Some of it I don't think is related at all to ADHD. It's very difficult. The social skills, or lack of, is also difficult. How do you teach an adult social skills?
Exactly
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
My spouse is extremely defensive. He does not see any of his poor social skills. He feels attacked and taken advantage of.
Even in trying to apply the knowledge of ADHD executive function issues, it is still hard. I mean come on, 29 years. . . . . . . . .
It is so-o hard to not just yell "Oh, grow up already." Which I have been known to do in the past........ not proud of that.
unsure
Submitted by Paul6934 (not verified) on
I am still learning. First what does dh stand for? Or do I already know? I Have been trying really hard.Doing everything I think she wants to be done.She is still very upset,and I understand why.I just want her to know that I will never go back to the way I've treated her in the past.I do everything she asks me to do without arguement or waiting.I listen attentively.I love to talk to her,but sometimes she just seems so angry.I guess she has every right.I'll just keep trying.I won't give up.Now I can see how exhausting all this really is.
Forum language
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
Paul,
DH = Dear Husband.
Exhausted I'm So Sorry
Submitted by Paul6934 (not verified) on
First ,thank you for the explanation.I don't know what to saay about your husband though.I am still trying to get my wife's confindence back.I guess you have to want to change for the change to occur.I will pray for you and your husband while I am praying for my wife and our marriage.Don't lose hope.
ADHD husband does the same
Submitted by dedelight4 on
My adhd husband does the same things as what you described. He is on Concerta, and was getting better, but now it seems like he is not taking his medication at all. I have carried the entire relationship for 30 years, and am SO TIRED now it's not funny.
t My husband is SO LOUD and zips around the house like a madman, slamming doors and making every person in the room a nervous wreck. He makes snide comments to the rest of us, but will NOT tolerate anything said back to him. Will cook a meal but destroys the kitchen in the process and is so loud it again drives everyone crazy, then tells me to clean it up. He too is constantly late then yells at me for not "getting him up sooner", when his alarm clock has been going off for an hour, which he ignores. He also will NOT TOLERATE anyone else doing the things HE DOES. I have also questioned if it is adhd or if it's just bad manners and that he doesn't WANT to do things differently.
The worst is, he will NOT discuss any of this rationally. We need to work MANY things out in our relationship, (especially the affair he had, which lated 3 years). BUT AGAIN, he will NOT discuss any of this, and acts like I am "attacking" him (which I am NOT!!!!) I try and ask him calmly and lovingly to explain what he is thinking or feeling, and NOTHING I say or do makes a difference, so I have just given up. After 30 years of dealing with an ADHD husband, I have just GIVEN UP and let him do whatever he wants, because NOTHING I have tried to do or say means anything. He just wants it to just "go away". THAT DOESN'T WORK, and he has NO IDEA how isolated and lonely I have been all these years.
I am physically disabled now with a severe back problem from a car accident (hit from behind by a careless teenager), and need another back surgery. The pain has been unbearable, on top of the pain of NOT having a close relationship with my husband.
He is now also unhappy in his current job. AGAIN......which I begged and pleaded with him NOT TO TAKE, because I couldn't stand to go through another job where he was at the bottom rung of the ladder trying to create something out of nothing. (He is a band director) But, he DEFIED me and took the job anyway, telling me that I was "all wrong" and didn't know what I was talking about. I wanted him to get a job in an already established band program instead of a school where there was NO program, and have to start one from scratch. He's done that all his life and has been MISERABLE in each job he's done this way, and here we are AGAIN.
I could list HUNDREDS of examples of where he just DOES NOT LISTEN....or want to do things differently. It's SO FRUSTRATING, but what can I do at this point? I seriously don't know. I've given up.
I understand
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
I know a lot of us are in the same predicament. It is helpful to hear other's experiences - as it helps me discern the reality of what I feel, see, and hear. Communication is difficult without ADHD. Misunderstandings, miscommunications. . . . . . . the ADHD affect gives it a whole new spin!
My common sense tells me if my spouse can be upset when someone yells from one room to the other, he has some sort of awareness when he is doing it. Or if he doesn't like to be disturbed when he is watching TV, he has to be aware it is rude to walk into the room where we are watching a movie and just start in on a conversation without waiting for a commercial, or saying "excuse me."
"Take responsibility for your own actions." That is one of the standards I had when we raised our 2 children. It was a difficult dynamic for me to teach, as everything that went wrong for my spouse was always blamed on someone else. It was a major contradiction.
"seems like he is not taking his medication"
Submitted by sunlight on
You don't mention how long he's been on Concerta but he could have developed a tolerance to it. This should be checked with his psychiatrist or doctor, though I appreciate the biggest problem there might be getting the doctor aware of what is going on. Your husband could easily be telling him everything is just peachy perfect and wonderful. Your description of his behavior certainly sounds like his current dose is hardly working or not working. Maybe you could suggest, or get him to suggest, adjusting the dose or getting him switched onto something else for a time?
adhd husband on Concerta
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Thank you for reading my post. My adhd husband has been on Concerta for about 6 years now. A few months ago the doctor doubled his dose, but the past month he has been acting like he's not taking it at all. He's back to talking super loud, running back and forth all the time (in the house) slamming doors instead of just closing them, talking endlessly, interrupting anyone in the house, forgetting his keys...wallet...phone....and whatever is needed at work, as well as having a very short fuse again, making mess after mess and NEVER cleaning it up, but getting upset at me for any mess I make. The stress coming off of him fills up the entire room and makes anyone around him VERY UNCOMFORTABLE. He complains about his job again, but I don't understand how he could be an effective teacher when he's NOT a good communicator. But, of course, it's never HIM, it's always someone else's fault and/or someone is out to get him.
It's SUPER FRUSTRATING because it seems like it's a constant double standard of living. It is hard to comprehend that my husband's behavior is mostly ADHD instead of just bad behavior and being inconsiderate. It's EXHAUSTING.....especially after 30 years. His unwillingness to talk about ANY of this has left me feeling VERY unwanted in his life, which keeps me on edge , like he could easily move on to someone else like he did when he had his affair. He does NO reassuring to let me know he loves me, or cares what I'm feeling or thinking, when I've always been a person who verbalizes LOVE and affection. When we have a conversation (which is rare these days) he will listen to me for about 30 seconds before he takes over and talks about himself. I've stopped talking to him about anything having to do with me, (that isn't critically important where HE'S concerned).
Two years ago, I had a serious illness and almost died, (was in a coma for a month) He told other people how much he loved me and didn't want me to die, but NOT ONCE did he say it to ME. You would think that THAT would have been enough for him to TRY to communicate with me, but it wasn't. A few years back, I got several books such as "Is it you, me or ADHD", and others, but he would NOT read them, and yelled at me to stop trying to "control" him. (plus, told me to get rid of the books because they were giving me wrong ideas)
This is NOT a marriage, we are just two people living in the same house, which is what I told him I NEVER WANTED TO DO. OR BE. We haven't had sex in years, which is his choice. He was never big into sex, and never, EVER initiated it, except when we were dating. After we got married, the sex dried up pretty quick.
Is this what ADHD people WANT? Do they WANT a bad marriage, or bad relationships? It seems like they don't care WHAT happens to their spouses, just as long as it doesn't affect THEM too much. THAT'S PRETTY COLD.
What any of us want
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
dedelight4,
I think the old saying that 'no one gets married thinking they will ever get divorced,' is true for me. I cannot believe I am in this spot of disappointment. How in the world did I not see it for so long. . . . well actually I did - I just didn't have all the pieces together to see it clearly.
I look back into my own history, when I was 19 years old and developed eating disorders. I knew something went very wrong with my diet, and it spun out of control for several years. Even when I KNEW it was not right, I KNEW I wanted to get better. . . . . . and I also knew it was mine, and no one was going to take it away from me. There were several different counselors who told me "You need to understand, there is no quick fix."
It did take a long time - I bet 10 years of at least 10 different counselors and psychiatrists. So here is the rub with trying to get a grip on the negative behaviors of my spouses ADHD - I Knew I had issues, I knew it made people uncomfortable, I knew I needed help, and I knew I was frustrated that it was taking so long. I did not try to blame others. I apologized often, and kept fighting to find the solution. My spouse - he does not see that his negative ADHD behaviors effect anything. His time blindness is frustrating for me. He knows that I, and counselors, and the Cleveland Clinic's full diagnostic screening understand his brain is ADHD wired. He has yet to accept it - fully.
I do not believe my spouse wants a bad marriage. Or wants to have no friends. Or no family he wants to get together with. . . . his behavior just comes across as he is right and bright and smart and has all the answers - and the rest of us are just, well, we are wrong.
So true
Submitted by Ajay on
So true what you say about not putting the pieces together for so long. I keep finding myself getting ready to kick myself and have to remind myself, "You can't know everything, even the doctors didn't see it."
You do sound well-motivated to work on yourself. That's very admirable.
As you say, no-one wants to be unhappy. Denial just keeps the drama spinning.
"unwillingness to talk about ANY of this"
Submitted by sunlight on
The thing that is coming through your post about his level of denial & avoidance, and his refusal to discuss his ADHD - is it anxiety or panic on his part? Anxiety can manifest in some odd ways including pushing away and rejecting people who approach and who are close to the issues at the root of it all. He knows he has big problems. He's trying to shut you down so that he doesn't have to think about any of it. Are you in contact with his doctors in any way? Can you ask the doctor to look at anxiety meds for him? Or a mood leveller - that can make a huge difference to the short fuse and flying off the handle. Maybe even a big enough difference that he could come off the Concerta for a while and then start back on it. Any chance?
What is he talking about?
Submitted by jennalemon on
Dh does not talk to share. When I just listen and try to follow his conversation without any heart or emotion at all on my part, I can see that he talks to distract, counter, and fight. He is not afraid to offend and uses offense as defense. Which, over the decades, I have taken as much as my own ego, patience and compassion abilities can stand because there is no effort at communion, connection, agreement, or peacemaking. I must accept that he is a country by himself with his guards up, not wanting unity. But he is quick to war just for the sake of a war habit. I believe that he would rather be a warrior than a wimp - which is his biggest fear in life. The attitude of a bully - that to agree and compromise is to lose power. I have become something/someone to lash out against just for the pure purpose of lashing out to feel better about himself. His power is only available to him when he is lashing out and blaming me...especially when I would always cry. When he puts me down or changes the subject with his details that get him off topic, he again stops the peace talks I try to have with him. When I said we need to scale down our spending and need to move to a smaller house, he says it is my fault we can't afford to live in our house because I fill the dishes sink too full and we don't need to move, I just need to do the dishes with only one gallon of hot water. Then goes into a diatribe about how much it costs to heat a sink of dishes and then goes into a verbal lashing at me about the heat in one of the rooms not being turned down 3 degrees overnight one night and the whole country for using natural resources foolishly. By the time he is done he is accusing me of being part of a grand scheme to ruin earth for him. In the past, I have usually taken the bait and argued about the math and economics, how much a gallon of gas costs vs how much a gallon of hot water costs, the future of the planet and politics and who knows where else this crazy-making conversation might go. But one thing that it would do for him would get me upset, feeling badly. The initial conversation that I needed to happen was out of the picture. He was fighting about other things so that he would not have to answer a simple question. Which was "How are you doing?" After listening to him just now, not being pulled in to his rant (like I had in past years. I was mindful to not argue and I used a calm voice) he intimated that HE cannot talk to me because I don't talk nice. He doesn't ask me how I am doing. I told him I am feeling nervous. He quickly changed the topic.
it's you, not me
Submitted by dedelight4 on
I too get the third degree every time the electric bill or water bill comes. Dh opens the bill and starts ranting about how "all of YOU" are not turning off lights, computers, etc. when HE is the biggest culprit when it comes to NOT turning things off.
I am ALWAYS going behind of him turning off the lights when he's running around the house, going from room to room. ( he NEVER turns them off) Yet it's always my fault that the bill is so high. Needless to say he has a computer center upstairs that has 3 computers linked together with three modems, TONS of extras on them and they are going day and night. I am SURE that THIS is where much of our electric bill is coming from. My dh ALSO, tries to tell me better ways to do the dishes that saves extra money, which are always just the opposite of what he is trying to achieve. He makes a BIGGER mess trying to clean than when he cooks, IT IS FRUSTRATING. Then, it's my duty to finish up behind of him after he's made a giant mess of the kitchen.
He has taken up cooking because he is a SUPER PICKY EATER. He only eats red meat, plain potatoes, french fries, cheese pizza, and lettuce with italian dressing for a salad. THAT'S IT. nothing else. So, he tries to come up with new ways to cook the red meat (steaks, etc). which are very expensive, and add to an already high grocery bill. But, again, it's my fault for eating other things and adding to the cost of food.
You are right when you talk about using offense as a defense, and I too have taken as much as my patience and compassion can stand. It often feels like being bullied and beaten down, to which DH says, "You are too sensitive about everything".
I've become an emotionally NUMB person. I used to cry a LOT, but the past year, that's changed to feeling less and less of anything. I'm not sure what that's all about.
thank you
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Thank you to all who've read my posts. I do believe my husband's unwillingness to talk about these issues has made this much, much worse than it needs to be. I have always been VERY willing to be open, caring and deeply concerned for his welfare, but since he takes any approach as an attack instead of trying to "communicate", it's left us in a stagnant state. I have literally tried everything, and don't know where to turn anymore. I DO WISH I knew if he still WANTED to be married to me, or if he just feels "obligated" to stay. I know I need to try one more time to ask him that question, and pray he gives me an honest answer.
For about 20 dollars
Submitted by sunlight on
.. you can buy a Kill-A-Watt electricity monitor and know exactly what plugin appliances are the culprits re electicity usage. If you can't get in to measure his computer equipment (but I would insist on it) you can measure the other appliances. He is probably going to rant even after you show him the facts but so what? Why not do it? It will set your mind at rest and give you actual information instead of back-and-forthing and going nowhere. Knowledge is power (hah, excuse pun).
thank you SO MUCH
Submitted by dedelight4 on
Thank you for the Kill-A-Watt information. I certainly will do this. Didn't know it existed, but thank you for telling me about it. LOVE the "Knowledge is power". :)
Clap on, clap off
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
dedelight4,
In my own marriage, I have learned over the past year, to clearly identify "Symptom-Response-Response" cycles ALMOST as soon as they start. I see the symptom, and I choose to say nothing. Not a snotty comeback is said, I do not spin on my heel and run, I just listen. I have decided to honor my own opinion. And to honor his. I do not need him to acknowledge mine for it to be legitimate.
I bend to the side of "Leave the lights on if you are going back and forth" and he goes on the "Shut off the lights, shut off the lights, shut off the lights." If he complains when my son leaves the light on, I accept that it drives him nuts, but I remind him that in my opinion, if our 24 year old son is in the garage at night and forgets to turn off the light, I am very happy - because I knew exactly where he was, and if leaving on the light is the worse thing he does, we are truly blessed. It also does not bother me if my spouse shuts off the lights after me. . . .I turn them back on when I go back in the room.
I tend to get myself confused on the boundaries of housework. I LOVE being a Mom and Wife and am happy to be a housewife. I have taken care of both the household and the business finances for the past 30 years. I also ran the administration end of the plumbing business at the same time as I was a stay at home Mom. Now I am in college, and do not get the extra help that my spouse promised- - -so I hired a housecleaner. She comes every other week and dusts, vacuum, washes the floors, etc.. And yes, it grates on my spouse. But in this area too, I choose to honor my own opinion of how much work I do, and the limit of hours I choose to work in my day.
When my spouse makes a snide remark when I am eating lunch and reading the newspaper - such as, "Wish I had the time to sit around," I remind him that he actually does. He can CHOOSE to take a lunch break if he wants.
I am not really sure why he things the way he does. No manner of proof, charts, graphs, etc., will get him to see he may be thinking incorrectly. Here too I have embraced the ideal that I do not need his approval for myself to understand what he cannot.
He cannot see his piles of stuff in and around the barn. It looks horrible to me. We have a photo of the barn, which shows our sons side of the barn and my spouses side. My spouse often thinks it is unfair that there is floor space to work on our son's side. I remind him each time he throws a fit that he could have space to work in his side of the bard, if he would allow someone to help him sort and organize his stuff. Sadly, we have attempted to help him over the past 20 years - at least 5 different times, but as soon as there is space on the floor, he fills it up.
So while I had been waiting, and hoping and praying that he would "get with the program," I am at the place of figuring out if I want to live with the man exactly as he is.
On getting with the program
Submitted by Ajay on
I smiled so much at this comment of yours:
'When my spouse makes a snide remark when I am eating lunch and reading the newspaper - such as, "Wish I had the time to sit around," I remind him that he actually does.'
Well said. :)
I think you're a strong, intelligent, thoughtful, caring person.
On your hope that he would get with the program: Earlier, when I posted a link to the video of the lecture by Russell Barkley, I was thinking of Barkley's opinion, which he expressed in that video, that ADD people internalise knowledge but not support skills. Barkley uses the image of a paraplegic given a ramp to enable them to enter a building: after a month, would you say to them, "Okay, you've had a month to internalise the ramp, now we'll take it away and you can do it by yourself"?
From Barkley's point of view, one wouldn't expect your husband (nor my wife) to one day realise what they've been doing and change their own behaviour.
Touche'
Submitted by I'm So Exhausted on
This is exactly where I am at - I am trying to discern if I am expecting something from him that he does not have to give. It is hard to separate all the pieces and look at them in a clear and logical way.
I have seen many a spouse across this forum trying to understand how their spouse can be so considerate and understanding and compassionate to a complete stranger - almost being in-tune with the other person's emotional state - and not be able to hear their own spouse's heart crying.
This morning was a tough one - it can be extremely difficult to decide if I am stepping away from a 'Symptom-Response-Response' cycle, or if in fact I am stuffing my feelings. Yesterday he did a job for a friend - never a good thing. Oh, he is the hero over at the friend's house - "Ta-Ta-Daaa! He saved us, and we KNOW we got a good deal on the pricing just because we are friends." What I get at home this morning is the glowering, skulking man who feels taken advantage of. . . . not making any money, etc., etc., etc. This specific situation had some extra components - the friends have a son who is an electrician. He went over to the friend's house after work, and my spouse directed him to do something with some wiring. The young man says, "Hey, I put in my work hours today."
I did not make a wise choice and said something - can't even remember what it was - just a comment about not working for friends. That set off a major rant at me - both barrels loaded. "Well my brother and his family are off on a 10 day vacation - and you babysat for them for free - and if you would have all that money they should have paid you - we could. . . . . . . . ." Starting the undertones of how I am not pulling my weight in this relationship. . . ., but I just backed away from the argument.
Geez. He left, and I am sitting here with a stomach ache. I have tried to disarm that bomb for years. When I have free time, I LOVE to spend it with my nieces and nephews. It is not work, it is something I love to do. Funny thing, I even take paperwork from my husband's business to work on while whoever I was babysitting was taking a nap!!!!!
Doesn't really matter - we have 2 different opinions - just like the electricity thing. But this was sure a stab at my personal sense of who I am. And does he know it? I think he does. But does he? Sure APPEARS he was very aware of what button to push.
I can understand that
Submitted by Ajay on
Your husband appears a different person outside the home. I can understand that - my relatives don't get to see my wife's behaviour in the home the way I do (nor do they get to see the worst of my responses, either). When he blames you, you're left hurting.