Husband has consistently taken personal funds to support business over past 5 years. He now insists these are “loans” even though he has never paid back anything to the household. How to get him to see it is not a loan if there is no payback? He has yet to create any kind of business plan/budget (states it is impossible since he is self employed). Therapist has now chimed in that this would be a good idea for his business, so will see what comes.
Also, everytime I ask a reasonable question about his business, he acts as if I am trying to show how wrong he is, etc. I understand there is a great amount of shame in this scenario, but it is exhausting to have to constantly apologize for upsetting him when he assumes I am on the attack (when I am not!).
After nearly 44 years of marriage I am just exhausted trying to accommodate him.
Comments
RSD
that attack thing; it’s RSD. Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria. I’d ask my ex about his plans, for eg, and he would react as if I’d come at him with a knife.
It’s a hall of mirrors. You’re the cast as the monster while he’s the one actually being mean.
Oh but you can actually have RSD and be perfectly nice. My therapist told me. It’s just a case of recognising it for what it is and then not inflicting it on your loved ones. It’s a choice.
You have my sympathy. I hope he can learn to make better choices.
Thank you for validation
Your comments really did strike home with me. For years I have thought that maybe it was me just being too particular and difficult. Now I realize that most of the time (not all) I am very reasonable in what I ask of him. I too hope he can make better choices at this point. I do see him making some effort but just hope it is not too little, too late for both of us.
It hasn't changed
You have been up against this for quite some time. The only way for a change to happen is on YOU. Call it a day and go see an attorney. Or, continue on w him draining your life savings for a business that isn't making money and go down with the sinking ship. There isn't another choice.
No Matter Which Way......
you slice it, it's still bread at the end the day. As the saying goes.
No Choice
Husband was to speak to me yesterday about business plan/budget. His idea was to give me breakdown of new business venture to make money, nothing about business budget or cutting expenses. He also indicated that I am punishing him for his past broken promises by not agreeing to go ahead with the new house we had been planning (claims I am holding him hostage).
It is too apparent that he is incapable of finding a way out of this behavior. I have needed surgery scheduled in mid-April that will require someone at home to assist, and he is baffled why I now wish to cancel it due to the emotional turmoil.
I slept little last night as a result of all this. I hope I can cancel surgery on Monday, and try to see the therapist as soon as possible to figure my way forward. Husband insists I am just money hungry but this is truly about the promises he has broken to NOT take money from our retirement funds a total of 3 times. He cannot even see that is a problem beyond him having “poor judgement” that apparently he thinks I should just forgive him and move on. He also claims that hourly I pick/snipe at him for everything. I am exhausted and very sad.
So sorry Neuchatel
So sorry to hear this. He does sound unaware of how his actions affect you, and even that he’s betrayed your agreement about retirement funds.
I don’t think you should allow him control of your personal resources. I agree the best would be to get legal help immediately.
ADHD showing up as betrayal like this is in my experience coupled with such shame that the person will do anything to deny the betrayal. If he can make you emotionally accept it and move on, he’s succeeded and can feel guilt-free. However, if you won’t let it go, this will be something he has to defend. He doesn’t want to feel guilty of greed, disrespect or dishonesty.
Believe me, a person can go to any lengths to avoid that shame. Denying reality is the first step. Denying unattractive motives too. Coming at you with accusations, destructive anger or rage are the next steps.
Please lawyer up.
I agree with Swedish
I have a dear friend who is suffering in her old age because she didn’t rein in her husband’s thoughtless spending and dipping into their retirement accounts. She’s 72 now, and is forced to work as a school crossing guard because social security payments are not enough to live on. She hates her life now, and deeply regrets that she let his bad financial decisions ruin her quality of life in what is supposed to be her golden years.
Swedish is right. Get an attorney. Your guy cannot change his behavior. He can only attempt to shift the blame to you. The only thing you are to blame for is not stopping his behavior after the first time he raided your retirement account. I don’t know how old you are, but it is not too late to start over without him dragging you into a hole of financial misery. I was 60 when I kicked out my ex, and I’ve never regretted it! I’m thankful every day for my peaceful financially stable life I have now. It’s not easy to leave a long relationship, but we have to do difficult things to protect ourselves in our later years. Please don’t end up like my friend, who suffers from arthritis but still has to hold that crossing guard sign no matter how bad the weather is or how bad she feels.
Baffling Behavior
I appreciate the comments. Even after all this time together, I am baffled that he is unable to comprehend that breaking a mutual agreement (not once but 3 times) is more than just “poor judgement” as he claims. I told him his actions broke my trust in him, but he just states that is “my opinion” as if it is not true. How is he unable to see that his actions are hurtful and selfish? Maybe I should be more realistic in that he has shown me multiple times that his business/clients are more important to him than our relationship.
He has a neurodevelopmental disorder
ADHD is a brain function disorder. The executive functioning part of his brain developed differently than yours. Executive functions like planning, organizing and following through on promises are affected. He is literally unable to see that he has broken your trust. Let me make an analogy: Just like a person suffering from polio who is unable to walk is not “lazy”, a person suffering from adhd is not doing these things because he is “selfish”. He is literally unable to grasp that his behaviors cause stress and pain in those people closest to him. That’s why you can explain your feelings to him till you’re blue in the face, but he doesn’t get it. I know you’ve been trying for over 44 years to explain this to him, but his brain is structured in such a way that he can’t put the pieces together, so he is not capable of understanding or acting upon these issues.
Deceit
Reason may go out the window with ADHD in instances like this. To protect their self-esteem, an ADHD deciever might decide the problem isn’t their theft, but for instance you not appreciating them enough.
I was thoroughly decieved. My ex told me when he moved out none of our agreements for 20 (undiagnosed) years had been real, since he’d always agreed with me for lack of choice. He took no responsibility for the choices we’d made. He then proceeded to accuse me of years of abuse.
I loved him, but it was beyond painful to see that apparent reality of his revealed decades too late. While I had stretched myself very thin to accommodate him emotionally, financially, practically, socially. In every measurable way, he has lied to me for years.
Don’t expect reason in your husband. Expect his avoidance of shame. Expect his self-protection at any cost to you.
I agree it’s probably executive dysfunction, not cruelty. My ex probably didn’t want to destroy me. But to the recipient it doesn’t make much difference.
I’m so sorry.
Dreamers
People with a long track record of financial indiscipline are usually dreamers with highly educated unrealistic ‘plans’. An organised business person at inception tends to focus on the hard parts, the drudgery tasks, as getting through these is key to building a solid foundation, whereas the bad with money dreamer will put their energy into the fun bits, such as making pretty pictures for the business.
My expectation is these guys mentioned above will never change their ways unfortunately
Hello all, my first contribution
Exactly!
My ex would have all of these grand ideas for many different businesses, and he would go out and order hundreds of dollars of expensive flashy letterhead stationery and business cards…only to have them sitting in a dusty corner for years because he never wanted to deal with the hard parts of starting a business.
No consequences
You didn't ever hold him accountable for his actions. First time was a warning but you did not set boundaries and hold him to them. He did it again and again with impunity knowing you would still be there accepting his financial abuse. Not sure why you are baffled, you accepted his actions multiple times in 5 years. It seems that you are not able to accept that he is a thief. It seems you are expecting him to miraculously change but the person who needs to changes YOU. Stop expecting changed behavior from him. Change yours to protect yourself or make a plan to leave. Consult w an attorney who can advise you of your options.
I'm sorry you've reached this point
There are so many times I thought, "If I explained this situation to 100 strangers on the the street, 100 of them would be able to understand what I'm saying. Why can't he??" But my husband at the time couldn't. There were times that it didn't matter what I said or how I said it or how common-sense-logical a situation was, he could only see his perspective and it was unshakable. I don't think it was ill-intent, but an inability to comprehend his impact on other people.
I'm really sorry that you're probably facing some excruciating and heartbreaking decisions to protect yourself. I hope you can find your way through. I hope your surgery situation is resolved. Thinking of you.
Appreciate all comments
I do appreciate all the comments made. I realize I am part of the problem as boundaries were not set and maintained (a lot to do with my childhood and emotional abuse by Dad). I must admit I feel foolish and stupid for putting up with this behavior for so long. I am doing my best to see clearly now as at age 67 I do not wished to be in a poor financial situation once I quit working.
This IS beyond hard. I managed to get an appointment with therapist for tomorrow (April 8) by myself to talk over some items. Husband and I have an appointment next Monday too (he states he is still willing to do therapy). As long as I do not bring up any issues between us, he is very calm and happy (and probably believes all is fine between us).
Due to increasing symptoms, I will probably go ahead with my needed surgery next week. Hopefully the recovery will only be a week or two, and I do need to get it done as there is still a very small chance cancer could be involved (and, as a result, I would rather resolve it sooner than later).
To top it all off, my 96 year old mother is “winding down” as the doctor put it (eating less, not interested in usual activities, etc.). She is in assisted living, so I am grateful I can just call/text a nurse to check on her if I have concerns. Caring for all 4 of our elderly parents since 2017 has taken a toll on both of us. I feel certain this has also caused “our” problems to be more pronounced due to stress as it has been somewhat like having children (which thank goodness we never had due to mutual agreement).
Thank you again for your insights and comments. Sometimes it is difficult to read them, but I realize I must meet the challenges coming with a clear mind.
I hope for the very best for you
Sending a hug too.
Sending you a hug
Sending you a hug. It sounds like your dad taught you that your role in life is to be a punching bag. I’m so sorry to hear about your mom too. I know it’s hard, but you have to fight for your life. Don’t let your husband continue to ruin it during this stressful time.
Thank you for support
Thank you for the hugs and support. I had a good session with therapist yesterday going over all that occurred last weekend. I feel assured I am not being unreasonable to expect financial security in retirement. My husband and I have a joint therapy session next Monday.
It just appears there is an absolute disconnect in what my husband does and what he sees that is occurring in our relationship — as if he cannot fathom that his actions cause any of the problems. Therapist is baffled as well. I brought up possible issues with ADD and she has recommended he see a clinical psychologist for possible diagnosis but she feels it may be a personality disorder. I do not care what diagnosis is, but feel as if we are now at a critical stage as I am ready to walk out if he does not make the necessary effort. Poor judgment is forgiveable; continuing to betray my trust and break mutual agreements (with no regret) is not.
Asking for What I Deserve
I am very anxious about our joint therapy tomorrow. My husband’s idea of taking retirement funds to support his business is no longer tenable for me. He appears to be unable to formulate a business budget/plan (something I have done for the household for decades). I realize this is hard for him. After all that has occurred, I wish to approach him respectfully, but feel as if whatever I do or say will be met with anger and defensiveness. I know I deserve a retirement that is not fraught with worry over whether or not the money is sufficient. I also deserve a life partner I can trust to abide by mutual agreements made between us.
To top it off, I am having surgery on Thursday, and must rely on husband for transport and care at home. I am so stressed that I lost my credit card when grocery shopping yesterday (something I have never done); I tried to find it at store to no avail so had to order another card.
It is going to be a very long week.
Conflict and surgery
This is truly distressing. I understand it’s a hard time for you to be conflicted with your husband, since the surgery is coming up.
Is there any way to reschedule therapy so you don’t have to confront him until you’ve recovered from surgery? Or do you have a trusted other whom you can stay with and who can help you for a little while?
I’d consider doing these things one at a time. To stand your ground about his chaotic business management might be easier another week when you’re back on your feet.
Hugs
I am strong!
Thanks for the input. In a perfect world, I would put the surgery off but: 1) there is still a small chance of cancer so would rather get pathology sooner than later; 2) post surgery recovery will restrict my care of Mom so would rather get it done while Mom is still stable (even though she is in decline now). I did speak with my husband today about having a hired caregiver at least take me to/from hospital (husband can only walk with a walker with “great difficulty”). He insists he is ready and willing to do what it takes. Since he does NOT cook at all, I have been cooking all kinds of things and freezing so post surgery eating can still be easy and healthy.
To be honest, my husband will probably just about forget what we discuss in therapy tomorrow by the time of surgery on Thursday - LOL.
After what we have been through since 2017 in caring for our elderly parents, I have realized strength I never knew I had. Nevertheless, I do appreciate the concern and feedback - thank you so much!
Oh yes
No, there certainly is no question about you being strong. You’ve proven that a hundred times over.
Sorry if that didn’t come across as I hoped.
Came across just fine
Your comments were received as caring and compassionate!
My heart goes out to you!
Sounds like you’ve made a good plan, and I sincerely hope you have a smooth recovery and a good prognosis. Sending you strength.
New Plan
Joint therapy session went better than I expected yesterday. Sadly, it just reinforced what I already knew: husband is more interested in stating why he cannot change since he believes I will not accept the changes (more deflection and defensiveness). When therapist challenged his idea of a business plan/budget, he insisted he did not understand what I wanted (he was a finance major in college so definitely understands what a budget is). When recommended by therapist, he did agree to see a clinical psychologist for assessment of ADHD; he now has a list of doctors to call.
When husband stated he could not change as I would not accept it, I told him that was “his” assumption and he was not giving me the chance (to change) that he always insists he deserves.
I am beyond sadness that husband is so tied up in his work/clients that he is willing to sacrifice our relationship for his work. He has little comprehension of what his financial irresponsibility has done to destroy my sense of safety and comfort in this relationship. In the end, it IS his decision.
I already feel as if I have one foot out the door. I still have surgery this Thursday, so will need to get through the procedure and healing (stated at 6 weeks) before I can make further plans.
Thought about you today
You deserve to feel safe. You deserve to be taken care of as lovingly and patiently as you’ve cared for the older relatives.
Wishing you well.
Hire that caregiver.
You had mentioned you could hire someone to at least take you to and from the hospital? Could you hire that person to come by for at least 2 hours a day just to help you through this? I would not rely on your husband no matter what he promises. I’m wishing the best for you, and sending you strength. I broke my leg and severely sprained the other ankle and my back, as I was deciding to end it with my ex… it set me back several months, but I had made my decision and I still got out. I saw what he was really like, when I was totally dependent on him to get in and out of bed, the bathroom, everything. It is such a helpless feeling when you can’t trust your spouse to be a decent caregiver. Please hire someone.
Appreciate the wishes
I appreciate ALL the comments. I am a very organized and detailed person, so I have all ready for my surgery including lots of food in chest freezer for microwave. I have had a number of previous surgeries, and husband has been capable of providing what I need so I am not worried. Plus, we have a small older dog that needs care and he is very good at providing that care. Hopefully all will go well tomorrow and I will heal quickly (as with other surgeries) and I will be able to make the hard decisions that will be required in the days ahead.
Healing well
My surgery was April 16 and I am finally feeling more normal. I am only allowed to walk at this point (no exercise or weight training) and hope to be released to drive by April 24. Fortunately, all pathology came back with no malignancies detected so I am very glad.
Husband has been very helpful except for one day when I was so tired that I napped for an hour in bed, he did NOT even notice and told me he thought I was working at my desk (did not even bother to get up and check). Of course, he was not wearing his hearing aids so do not understand how he thought he knew where I was when he could not even hear anything.
Week has been difficult as Mom had an accident at assisted living facility 3 days after my surgery. She was out in mobility chair and managed to gash one leg open (lots of blood) and severely bruise her other foot (may be broken). She could not recall how or when it happened, so I have been having a lot of correspondence/phone calls with facility over how her care now needs to change since this lack of memory is alarming. Mom is NOT telling me much; I called her sister yesterday and found out items I had discussed with Mom but she neglected to tell me (but she told her sister). Since I did not tell Mom of my surgery, I have not yet seen her but hope to go by tomorrow when I get permission to drive.
I hope to return to my work place next Monday. I know I will be more fatigued but will just have to take it slow. Husband has been working furiously on client work, but has not given me any update on finding a clinical psychologist for ADHD evaluation. In some ways, I would just be content to NOT have to deal with all this anymore. Care of Mom is just taking up all my brain power right now.
Happy your pathology results were good
You’re so brave and I’m glad you seem to have a good prognosis!
Sorry about your mother though. I understand you have about three things too many to cope with. I hope you can find time to just rest and heal at the moment.
Sending all my best.
Much Appreciated
Thank you for the comments and wishes. I am finding time this week to rest/recover. I brought some work home from office but just did a minimum amount.
I am now realizing that Mom may no longer be able to manage her medications or do without more “hands on” care at facility, so requested a doctor review; facility already scheduled it for April 27. I am SO grateful to have Mom at a good quality facility that truly cares for her.
Funny how even when one is overwhelmed one does appear to rise the occasion!
Does not do any good
My husband was to call clinical psychologist 2 weeks ago for appointment for ADHD evaluation. I asked him for update today. He insisted he had called 2 weeks ago but he never told me or gave me any updates. He now insists I was counting the days to “punish him” about not following through. I am struggling to understand why he constantly tells me I am punishing him when I ask about items that have not been completed. If he just offered a 1 minute update per week, I would be happy that he is communicating. He feels as if I should ask for a date for him to get back to me (but that never works since he forgets or does not do so). He now claims I went to therapist alone to determine why I am always punishing him; I never told him that but it is obviously what he “heard” me say. I was attempting to give him space to get back with me, but asking for an update triggers the punishment thoughts. Is it just the extreme defensiveness he is feeling (and maybe shame)? Therapist has told him several times that ball is in his court to make changes, but little if anything actually changes. It does not do any good for me to be patient and supportive when he feels as if I punish him in asking for update. I am at a loss as to how to handle the situation.
I don’t think it makes sense to them
Honestly, I think for (at least severe) ADHD people, communicating things in due time, or at all, might not make sense.
My ex thought i could mind read him. It’s not an exaggeration. He actually thought if he’d been thinking about something, I would know it too even if it was never mentioned. Also, we did evaluations of the plans we’d made to share housework. Every time, I had done everything on my list, he’d done little on his. When he realized this, he looked confused. He wasn’t aware of it.
Eventually I found he was unaware of many things. He was unable to imagine the future, plan ahead, decide, communicate, remember agreements or dates, prioritize. Also he couldn’t separate categories (like your husband who seems to not see it’s wrong to take money which is also yours).
My ex is highly intelligent and educated and excellent at his work. He performs in front of groups of people solving their especially difficult professional problems on the spot, no preparation. At the same time he’s dependent on someone else to arrange the whole thing including taking care of his e-mail.
Caught in the present and with little orientation.
I think with a brain like this, to him my expectations made no sense. I might as well have asked him to flap his arms and fly. If I reacted negatively when he didn’t take off it felt like unfair punishment to him.
I don’t know what world my ex lives in. But it sure doesn’t make much sense to me either.
Losing battle
In my experience, we were coming at this from two different perspectives - I could see the issues ADHD was causing and he could not. Life was great for him because he did whatever he wanted and I was just a nag. There was no urgency to get therapy for him because 1. in his mind, ADHD wasn't an issue - he truly could not see why I was at the end of my rope or the chaos he caused daily and 2. therapy meant work and change, neither of which he wanted anything to do with.
In regards to communication, you shouldn't have to work this hard. Reminding a partner or asking for an update is not punishing or nagging, etc. I mean come ON! This is a him problem, not you, but in my experience, it's losing battle when the other party isn't invested.
In his mind
In his mind, you will always be the bad guy. My ex was like this… the perpetual victim who took no responsibility for his actions, and had no initiative to change. If I asked for updates on progress he was making on his endless promises, he accused me of nagging. It’s a no win situation for you. If you choose to stay, please know this will be your future. No progress on his part, only blame shifting to you.
You are right
It certainly appears the future will be this way. I am just so very sad that I have tried to make difficult changes but he has NO interest in doing so. Right now he is once again working (on a Saturday), speaking to his client. I should just wake up and realize that his work/clients are more important than our relationship.
Categories and priority
This too. Like the concept of Saturday (recreation, prioritizing family) which most of us feel has major importance, isn’t present in the ADHD mind, or can easily be overrun by some random work distraction. Nor is there perhaps ability to prioritize.
My ex had no concept of weekends either. He could never plan a nice dinner or an outing or seeing friends or generally focus on enjoyment. He usually only suggested boring household errands that would be easier to do on Tuesday on the way home from work.
I feel for you. No matter why it happens, it makes life really hard for a non-ADHD partner.
Sadly, yes
It seems in my experience, that less close relationships, like business clients, are easier for them to navigate. I also think that they don’t recognize or respect boundaries in close relationships either, like it’s ingrained in him that your money is his money. I’m so glad you got the surgery over with and everything was benign. I hope you are focusing on healing yourself instead of trying to change him.