I don't feel safe | ADHD and Marriage

Physical safety

Submitted by Chevron on Tue, 08/29/2017 - 10:31

Kitty,

You mentioned your concern about your physical safety the last time you posted as well. So it's on your mind. That it continues to be on your mind is something not to ignore. We can't evaluate your partner for you on the matter, so we can't tell you whether you're safe or not. It would be very inappropriate for any of us to say "he's safe to be around" or "he's not safe." This means that you'll have to trust yourself that you're uneasy about his patterns when he's around you.

1) You are very worth following up on this.

2) Get in touch with your local DVIS (Domestic Violence Intervention Service). Even if they don't have a branch where you live, they always have hotlines.

3) If it is a matter of you getting more peace of mind about your physical security, you do NOT need to tell your partner that you're calling DVIS or in fact doing anything to care for your security at his hands. There is a time for complete candor and for asking for a partner's help, but there can be a time when morally telling your partner everything you are doing and thinking is not required. I suggest that as you work through things about this, that you keep to yourself what you're doing. It's not going behind his back if in fact you're worried about him doing something to you physically. DVIS trains its counselors. They know the stats about various things, nationally, and common early warning signs to someone who ends up doing domestic violence. Call more than one. Listen to more than one. YOU know your situation at home better than anyone else. They have training. One thing to talk over with them, not with us, who have no training in therapy and haven't treated Narcissists in our office, is how Narcissism or extreme self centeredness relates to possibilities of domestic violence. I don't know, at all. I've been around a full blast Narcissist in my life two or three times. Neither adult male had it in him to do physical violence. My mother did, lived in the victim mode and hit us kids, but she didn't have a crazy conspiracy theory. Someone with real training needs to answer your questions about what to expect from your partner.

4) I suggest that you prepare yourself an alternative to sharing a roof with your partner. You may not have to use it. But what's wrong with having a plan in case you have to use it?

When is your lease up? If your name is on the lease and his isn't, you, not he, are legally responsible for fulfilling the lease. Ignore his remarks about putting his name on the lease at this late date. If you need to, use your legal power as the only name on the lease, to deal with your landlord about your situation. You're going to have to be the one to know whether or not you need to take action at home, but have you considered inquiring of your landlord about breaking the lease? Of course some landlords would require complete fulfillment of the lease. But I've heard of plenty of people who, for instance, have gotten a job elsewhere in the country and got out of their lease, perhaps paying a couple months' rent on it to cover the time the landlord needed to re-rent the place. It's up to you and your landlord to have that negotiation. Again, if the matter is your care for your physical safety or worries about your physical safety at the hands of the person with whom you are living, you do NOT need to let your partner know you are checking out what options YOU have with that lease. Your local DVIS probably will be able to tell you whatever municipal and state laws bind landlords and lessees. Ask them.

Do, please, get some offline help and advice from people who are really trained in matters of domestic violence. You may not need to do anything, but you do need to learn more about what your options are, and have a plan in place.

We can't use our individual life experiences to determine whether or not your partner will do something harmful. Stay safe, and stay in touch.

Chevron

Yes. I agree with Chevron

Submitted by sickandtired on Tue, 08/29/2017 - 14:01

It sounds like he may be experiencing a psychotic breakdown, losing touch with reality. I had such a similar relationship, where he was convinced he was being victimized by his parents, the church, his boss...you get the picture. The scariest part was when he turned against me too, aiming his anger and distrust at me. My x definitely played the victim. Authority figures were his enemies in his delusion, and I became just another authority figure in his mind to hate and get revenge on.

I see an eerie similarity with your situation. DON'T CONFRONT him any more. You are correct that your situation is getting dangerous. Please go to a friend's house to stay until he is out. Get out and get a support system to protect yourself. I'll be hoping for your success.

Boom! Everything you wrote is

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Tue, 08/29/2017 - 15:22

Boom! Everything you wrote is spot on. I won't reveal my hand to him too much anymore. I felt like what he was saying had taken a dark turn, and I wanted him to know if he tried to escalate, he better prep himself for a huge throw down. He's a man, so he's physically stronger. I won't try to physically fight him, but I needed to make it clear that I've never been some passive pawn he can boss around no matter how loud or aggressive he chooses to get.

He was doing his same old bait and switch arguing. I bring something up, so instead of talking about that. He brings something up to derail the conversation. I know his game and told him we could discuss his issue once we worked through the one we were talking about.

I feel strongly that I can't be a doormat. He's modeling the behavior that he knows, but it's simply not my problem anymore. That's why I broke up with him.

One point that the domestic abuse advisor brought up is this is exactly the time that things escalate: when the victim tries to leave. Thinking about that, I realize I need to tread a bit more carefully because he's really trying to exert control. The usual pattern with us is huge fight and then a sea of calm for awhile. Let's hope the pattern holds.

Also, a friend said I don't need to wait for things to hit rock bottom. Once I have the fiscal means to make a move, I will.

Keep it mum

Submitted by sickandtired on Tue, 08/29/2017 - 16:07

I know what you're going through. I have a masters degree and I have never submitted blindly to a man. My situation was that when we went to counseling, he blamed the counselor when she confronted him with his suicide threats to gain control of me. When I went to the counselor alone as both of us were asked to do, he accused me of "disloyalty" and "demonizing him behind his back". That's when I got really scared. I had attempted to hug him during a calm moment when I was in pain and in need of just a hug....he put his arms around me, but his words quickly turned to the paranoid thoughts that spewed out of him, as I could feel his arms stiffen around me as he accused me of disloyalty. That scared me, so I decided to not do anything in front of him that fed into his paranoid delusion, because he would see me as the bad guy who deserves to be punished. I'm so glad you contacted friends and the local domestic violence victims advocate groups.

I mostly stay in my room

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Tue, 08/29/2017 - 17:40

To avoid setting him off, I actually try to minimize contact with him. I never really know what's going to set him off. I've had moments where it's the morning, and we've both just woken up. I say something playful or funny only to have him say something angry. I just don't know when the dark cloud is going to be over him. He also talks to himself a lot more now. I think part of it's because I'm refusing to sit through his rambling and since impulse control is an issue, these thoughts hit his mind and he's simply unable to process them silently. In a way, it's good because I have a bit of a peek into what he's thinking.

OMG, it's so interesting what you're saying about counseling. I think us going to counseling would play out the same way as he thinks he knows everything and now is so paranoid that he trusts no one. It was the only way I'd agree to stay in a relationship with him. He said "no" and my reply was "well, that's that; let's move on to figuring out the best way to separate."

There are many things I'm not telling him now. I don't even talk about my day when he asks. All he gets now was "good and you?" It's amazing. I had a bad day once involving two men who were just sort of rude. His narcissism kicked in and, somehow, he was trying to tie these randoms to his drama. The idea is folks would come through me to get to him I guess. I just don't share anymore as he's so self-centered that everything can be part of his conspiracy theory. Yesterday he referenced a living situation that I had where I lived rent free for a few weeks. It was great for me because I was able to save money but because the senior citizen had Masonic ties, he's now sure that this old man was part of the system that's conspiring to keep him down. Actually, this old man was a widower and needed a bit of help around the house for a few weeks. Simple and not really all that much to it. He forgets that that situation allowed me to stash away enough money to rent a house on my own: a house he stayed in until I decided to move.

I'm hoping that the job I'm in interviews for I'll get. The one thing I know will happen is I'll have to be in the office some days and on days I'm not, I'll try to work from home, but if he's in crazy-mode I'll work out of a co-working space or a library. I'll also have to travel more. That just means I won't be here as much. Keep your fingers crossed that I get the offer. Even if I don't with my network alerted, I think they'll start feeding me jobs that they hear about. Something will come up soon regarding that.

Go for it

Submitted by sickandtired on Tue, 08/29/2017 - 18:00

Good luck on getting that job. You are much too strong and intelligent to have to hide in your room from him in your own home. It is really concerning that he could weave basically random people like the senior citizen into his delusions. And talking to himself...how deep do his conspiracies run? All of this anger is coming from inside him, that's why you never know what will set him off. HE sets him off and you have suffered the consequences. It's like a dynamic, with a few characters, like you said, and it's a common delusion in various mental illnesses, the victim, the villain, and the savior. You were his savior when he first met you and you got that apartment with/for him....now he has you in the role of the villain. Be careful and let us know each day that you're ok please? There are a lot of us on here that care.

Good perspective

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Tue, 08/29/2017 - 18:06

You're right. He sets himself off, but he always puts it upon something, anything to justify why he's angry this time. It can be something small or something that legitimately makes sense. I pointed out to him early in our relationship that he's going to be the boy who cried wolf at a certain point. He's definitely that now because anything can send him into a tirade of swear words.

My moves have always been for me, except for this last one where we decided to move in together. However, I was the person searching, applying, and securing the place. He always paid his part and this place has been a bit of a challenge with maintenance, so he was the one who stayed home. However, a lot of that was driven by a distrust of allowing management to just let themselves in. It's valid but he takes it to a level that's paranoid.

I'll try to check in frequently. The waters are calm today, but, yeah, I'm typing this while I'm in my room. :)

Update - I left today. Things

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Thu, 08/31/2017 - 00:49

Update - I left today. Things escalated. He got really aggressive. Like frothing at the mouth angry. He was packing his things and I asked if he was going away for a day or two or was it yet to be decided. Of course, it was all much ado about nothing because when I got in he was there. Today he woke up and immediately started swearing to himself. (I'd been up early as I figured he would wake up agitated.) He turned on music which was very loud. I turned it down. He started ranting and I started recording him. He threatened to kill me. I kept recording. I've shared it with friends. I've also filed a police report. I've alerted our upstairs neighbor who told me that before I got home last night the cops were called. (I'm not sure by who maybe the neighbor that called earlier?)

Anyway, I left today. I'm staying with a friend and other friends have offered to host me. Not sure where things will go from here, but I'm not there right now. I have a meeting with a domestic abuse counselor tomorrow.

You will have thought of this, Kitty

Submitted by Chevron on Thu, 08/31/2017 - 07:27

things you will have thought of already, but in case not:

I think I remember you telling us in your first post a couple weeks ago that your partner used weed heavily. And is using it now. If I'm remembering that right, be sure that the counselor and police report have that detail. Not every habitual grass user gets paranoid, but quite a few report it and there has been medical testing of the correlation.

There's no good result in trying to win a confrontation with someone who has lost control of himself. Or in trying to get even. You cant get even with someone who is in an emotional storm.

If he self starts like that, in the morning, without you even in the room as he gets up, he's not rational. He's in fight or flight.

If he's a frequent bully, or a Narcissist, or has the habit of acting one way with people out on the street, but saving the heavy anger and acting out for when he's at home without people seeing or on the phone, I suggest that you talk over with the domestic abuse counselor the idea that you only go back to the place you're renting if you have someone with you. Or two someones. Bullies, Narcissists and anyone else who masks heavily to outsiders, will tend to keep it together better if you show up with someone with you.

I'm worried about his threats. I know you'll talk this over with the counselor, and will talk over how many times neighbors, hearing something, have called the cops.

It's hard to abandon the battle for yourself with someone who has been abusive to you, but right now he's crazy, whether due to weed or to the grip of something else in him. I hope you talk over deescalation with the counselor today.

I'm glad you're doing these things for yourself, Kitty, that involve other people knowing what's going on, and you having an option other than going back. He's not in good shape. Taking care of you, not facing him down or forcing him, is the big battle to win here.

I'll be thinking about you today.

Chevron

Stay strong

Submitted by sickandtired on Thu, 08/31/2017 - 09:39

I'm glad you're out, but the circumstances are terrifying. I don't think this behavior is due to marijuana. Marijuana usually calms and soothes one's anger. He's probably self- medicating to ease his anxiety. His type of paranoia is due to serious mental illness or stronger drugs, like meth or speed. Has he ever used those types of substances?? I'm sure you can get a restraining order with his threat to kill you. I know you know the law, and the limitations of restraining orders, but you should get one anyway. Have you contacted your landlord? You might be able to break the lease because his presence there makes it unlivable. This guy could trash the house and financially that would be on you, unless perhaps you could get the landlord to help you get the authorities to toss him out.

My x ignored my restraining order, and sneaked in my yard, and stole my car, and he threatens me by email every few weeks from about a thousand miles away. I have moved on with my life and I feel safe now, but less than 3 years ago, I was exactly where you are now. Guys like this just see boundaries as attacks or insults upon them, just like they see everything else, and you are his number ONE enemy now. Don't ever forget that, and watch your back when going to work and other routine places. This is the most dangerous phase of a breakup. Please don't let your guard down concentrating on getting your things from your home. Concentrate on your safety above all. You're showing a lot of courage leaving. Many people don't have the support network or the means to leave, so they adapt to this chaos and danger, and try to "fix" it. Good for you for getting out. I know you're WAY too smart and strong to ever go back to this madness.

I'm trying. :) Thanks.

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Thu, 08/31/2017 - 10:05

I'm trying. :) Thanks.

Since we live together, I can't get a restraining order. He'd have to be tossed out, AND I know him. He'd not obey the order anyway. That's the next step. I need to inform the property manager about what's going on. I'm well into the month-to-month phase on this lease, so I can give them notice and be safe. I actually was able to negotiate a less than 30 day notice period because shortly after we moved a mom with a young kid moved in above us. It was awful, and I was able to negotiate a shorter notice period, which still holds as I've not signed a new lease. It's not ideal, as I want to stay in the place, but as of yesterday (and probably even before) that's not something that makes sense.

Regarding drugs, he revealed to me recently that he's tried harder drugs in the past. That was shocking to me as I'm a bit naive when it comes to drug abuse. I know he used to drink. He recently started buying craft beer but that's seemed to taper off. His drug of choice is marijuana and its various forms.

Moving

Submitted by sickandtired on Thu, 08/31/2017 - 11:26

I'm glad you are the only one on the lease, and in a month to month situation. I think moving would make you feel safer, because as long as he knows where you live, he will ruminate on it, and feel temptation to see you and control you.

I have a friend who has an adult son, 30 something years old, and he behaves as you describe: loud outbursts, threats, complicated conspiracy theories, self medicating, talking to himself, destruction of property, "foaming at the mouth anger" (like you described), and he is diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic. He will be like this forever, even with anti- psychotic meds, he's still a ticking time bomb. He threatens his mother because she controls his social security disability check. Once in a fit of anger, he threw a full size wheelbarrow at his own sister as she was rushing down some outdoor steps to protect her mother. The wheelbarrow knocked her down the steps, and caused her 2 year old, running behind her, to fall and injure himself too. The reason I'm telling you this is just a cautionary tale that things can get out of hand RAPIDLY in an individual who has no self control or awareness of others' physical vulnerabilities.

I know it's very hard for you right now. I can soooo relate. I feel like if I can do it, at age 62, you can do it too. This time next year or maybe even sooner, you will feel so much better, when you get some time and distance between you and this guy.

There is a song that keeps running through my mind that helped me a lot when I was in your shoes. It's called "Get Out of this House", by Shawn Colvin. I hope you can find it on YouTube and listen to the words a few times. It helped me stay strong.

Thanks for the music

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Thu, 08/31/2017 - 12:10

Thanks for the music suggestion.

I feel better already. My mind is more relaxed. I've been forgetting things over the last couple of years. I've mostly been able to keep it together, but I'm not as on top of things as I've historically been because a lot of my energy is focused my reactions to him and trying to manage him. He's distracting.

I'm not a psychologist, but, reading the description of paranoid schizophrenia it sounds like exactly what I've been seeing. He's always been distrustful and suspicious of people, but the stress of his parent's divorce along with me ending our relationship along with all that life throws him (and like all of us, it's a lot) has caused him to have a break. It's been creeping up slowly. I also think me pulling away has caused a fair amount of trauma. I started worrying when he was talking about recalling things from his past. I was thinking this would lead to exactly where he is now: a complex theory about how he's being conspired against. Mental illness runs on my father's side of the family, but how it manifested with my father was he was very sensitive. My mother was great at shielding him a lot from the cruel world. Clearly, I took some of that on. (Of course, my ex won't admit that; now I'm the enemy too.) The other point of him being aggressive with me, but friendly with others is true too. He brags about how he's so friendly to the neighbors or strangers. He can, but anyone can be nice sometimes. What he doesn't understand he's inconsistent. He also rubs people the wrong way. I've seen it over and over in restaurants where he'll lose his temper over the craziest thing. In fact, for awhile I simply refused to eat in public with him.

Wow....separated at birth???

Submitted by sickandtired on Thu, 08/31/2017 - 12:50

This sounds so much like my ex. We even moved to another state because I hoped he could get a new start there and make new friends, but he just made more enemies. We moved into a small historic tourist town full of hundred year old houses built on a hill where everyone that had a house had to get along and cooperate. It didn't take long for him to find fault with these easy going guys, and actually escalate an argument about music tastes into an almost fist fight in a restaurant. So I was miserable like you when out in public with him...never knowing what would provoke him, and spending WAY too much of my energy trying to clear the way for him each day to avoid potential pitfalls or triggers. I ended up doubting myself. And he liked it that he thought he could break me.

Didn't get the job :(

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Sat, 09/09/2017 - 12:00

But that's okay. I thought about it this morning and, realistically, with the stress I'm in right now I would have had an awful start. I'm not talking much to people that I don't know because I'm afraid they'll say something that will pull up some emotion, and I'll start crying. However, I do need to double down on my search, and I don't have the distraction of having to deal with him. Now I just have the fear of having to constantly look over my shoulder when I'm out.

You can do it!

Submitted by sickandtired on Sat, 09/09/2017 - 12:21

I'm glad you have decided to double down on the job search. That's the mark of a winner and a survivor!

Do let us know how the job hunt goes

Submitted by Chevron on Tue, 08/29/2017 - 19:04

I'm so glad that you reached out to your friends there, and now have a place ...sounds like more than one..that you can stay.

The abuse counselor's remark that controllers up the ante on people who they think are fighting back or getting away was chilling to read, but sounded true to me. Take care, Kitty.

SickandTired wrote, I decided to not do anything in front of him that fed into his paranoid delusion, because he would see me as the bad guy who deserves to be punished.

That sent me to thinking about emotional lability (fast flash emotions) in people with ADHD. [Edited to add: or in anyone, ADHD or not]. Leaving paranoia aside, just the fact that the person is in a flash of anger breaking out... or for that matter fast flash fear or hostility, I'd never talk back to that, not in the moment the other person is losing it. Having my say with someone who has lost it is just booster to make the anger or whatever the take over emotion is, coming at me go higher. Talk is for when people can listen to each other. I'm 200% with SickandTired and the abuse counselor. There are times to stand up for yourself and times not to. Talk can always happen later, if the situation later is such that explanations or whatever can do any good.

The thing about paranoia is that it comes from within. That means that when he is overcome with paranoia he's setting himself off.

Let us know how it goes.

Makes sense. For me, the

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Tue, 08/29/2017 - 22:16

Makes sense. For me, the easiest way to do that is to simply avoid him, which is why I'm in my room all the time.

He's still coddling his paranoia and now wants to explain to me what he meant when he said he knows who I am. He's trying to take on the role of a wise sage. He's completely convinced that his theory is correct. I'm going to have to try my best to adopt a poker face and not react. That's not my strong suit.

Thank you for these points!!!

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Sat, 09/09/2017 - 12:03

Great points all around. Thank you. I credit this forum and posting here as a way for me to sit down and think this all through.

I know that no one here can comment on whether he's safe to be around or not. I don't think he is when he's in that state. Yesterday was AWFUL, and I really think the fighting escalated to a new because he had new accusations on top of the name calling. I think writing this post and simply thinking it through helped me. Of course, this morning all is fine. He was trying to chat with me earlier about a TV. I'm like "dude? really?"

I reached out and spoke to someone via the National Domestic Abuse hotline. She turned me on to two local orgs here that help those dealing with domestic abuse. They have a support group and 1 to 1 counseling. I also let my friends know. I realized when I posted the first time here that I've not been sharing too much. Some friends know I broke up with him, but they didn't know about the verbal abuse. When I called the hotline they suggested that I set up a safe word with my friends. That's in play now, so they know if they get a text from me with that to call the police. I feel much better now having a local org and my friends in the loop. Of course, that yielded multiple offers for me to stay with them if I felt I needed to. I'll make sure to reach out to DVIS too. Thanks for this info.

I also think someone called the police yesterday. I was in my room and he was taking one of his hour plus long showers, so he didn't even know they were outside. They said they were called to my address, so either it was a mistake or a concerned neighbor made the call on my behalf. Clearly, people are hearing the fights and seeing him slamming doors and calling me all sorts of awful names. I'm thinking that was a signal that someone nearby has my back should I need it.

The one thing he can't top me on is the law. Without revealing too much, I have a law degree, which means I have the knowledge and a network of people I can reach out to. I'm not worried about his grumbling that somehow it's my fault that he's not on the lease. He was also trying to blame me because he wanted to learn how to drive. I drive and told him to just let me know in advance when he wanted to go out and practice. He never tried to make plans, and I told him the whole time that he had to let me know in advance or it wasn't going to happen. I guard my schedule from him and others in general and try not to let him get me off course. That happened a lot at the start of our relationship because he's impulsive. He's got a bad habit of blaming his lack of follow through on everyone but himself. It's part of his pattern. However, none of that is my problem considering the other stuff I'm dealing with regarding him.

Regarding the lease, I'm set. It's been over a year. I believe I just need to give 30 or 60 day notice to be able to leave. It's an option I'm considering once I get a new job. If I get the one I want, my commute will be long, so it might be ideal to move just for that. He has no idea I'm considering leaving.

Yesterday was just really tough, but it was so bad that I needed to reach out her and beyond.

Think "Abandonement"....KittyPlantinumPink

Submitted by kellyj on Wed, 08/30/2017 - 14:49

Going through this myself, all of this relevant to me when applying it to myself and I can't really give you any advise either......if it was me you were attempting to talk to ( man with ADHD ) I think no matter what....I can be resoned with but to do that......a person needs to be reasonable and that's a problem with someone who has catastrophic thinking as part of their normal thought processes. What I have to say here without question.....that it's difficult for me to read "about myself" and not feel the need to defend or "sound like that's what I'm doing"......so to change from that or to make sure I don't sound like I'm denying my part in this........I have to admit first 1) that this pattern of thinking of "sighting everyone that is after you, persecuting you, or trying to "do harm to you".....IS part my past and even current "tendencies"...andwhen I say "tendencies" I'm saying......"when push comes to shove".......and then, which way are you going to go it?

By default. as I'm saying this.....of course, everyone has their "defaults" or when things get thrust upon you ...when you are not ready or prepared....or when taken by surprise.....defaults as I'm saying it.......are "reactions"....not "responses"...and those do form...the basis for a pattern...or a series of actions and behaviors that keep repeating themselves in a consistent way each time something "triggers" the reaction. And when you go into "self protective mode".....you are basically and fundamentally acting "As a Narcissist" yourself. Even when normally under any other circumstances.....you would not be this way. Couple that with the fact.....that you have been playing off of the other side of a "Narcissist" to counter the effects and to shield you from "them" as you described....so without hesitation....I could easily say....that you are "coming across as a "Narcissist" to him.....because you are being one, in the very things you are doing.

The problem is however......you almost have to, to protect yourself and to "In a real sense" ......."not show your hand." That is ....IF you yourself, believe what you believe is absolutely true..and it can't be any other way? I'm rarely confronted with this anymore...and for the most part......I don't have to deal with it anymore either....but there is to a certain degree....."what is real and factual".....that you cannot deny, but you have no control of or no way to know....what someone else is capable of....other than to use the pas as a reference to possibly "predict" what will happen....when push comes to shove........and a person is operating in "default mode" and not using good reason or "thinking" at all? Closing "off" ,,,,communication is basically "closing yourself off" to the other person as as you said, and noticed I started doing this more and more...when I "rehearse" in my head what I'm going to say...or I "speak out loud to myself" to hear myself speak? Almost like trying to be my own sounding board and that it exactlhy what it is I think?   You are talking to yourself....in the 3rd person as if you....were two people? But even that's a dangerous territory...to assume this is what you are seeing....because it could be something else ....instead?

I got really good at "talking myself down". That was the first thing my T really taught me to do....."How to talk yourself down" because that's the name of the game when you've got to keep your emotions in check. And there are times like you are talking about...as I am right now myself.......where that requires that constant vigilance....to make sure your not "spiraling" and keeping a rational "cool head". And what I found more than anything.....it's not spiraling "out of control"......it's "self generating" or "ruminating"..and just grinding that same thought "over and over" until it starts to self generate and take on a life of it's own. That's where the paranoia begins.......but a little bit is necessary.   It is a catch 22 or as you say......"a situation where you can win."   But that is because.....you are "win" something here? It is the "seeds" of Narcissism....and making it "all about you" and bringing everything back to yourself. But to a certain degree.......you have to without going to over board. You....yourself.....are not "immune" to being "self righteous" and being or acting like a Narcissist......in the face of a Narcissist.......you are not a super human person....who can be objective like that in all situations especially when you start thinking with "fear" as being your basis or reasoning for all the thinking that come after it. No way can you do that....and neither can I.....but those "truths" or the "kernal of truth" is the bug that just keep biting at you and won't leave you alone.

So in keeping this thinking......"bringing yourself down" means recognizing this and seeing you part to play and just how you "can" be doing the same thing he is....as a "default". But no matter what.....that's just "tit for tat"....any way you slice it. You're the doing the same thing he is......in response to him doing that to you? You are no more justified...and no less being hypocritical.....if you playing that game which means usually.......( for me almost always ).....my "new default" ...would be to do "the opposite" of any old "defaults" without even thinking about......but sometimes, those feelings are so overwhelming and painful......it's very difficult to do. Very difficult...is hot impossible sometimes. But I'm only human...and I have these "specific challenges" ..and occasionally I simply "fail". "Catastrophic failure".....means......you're simply human and you just don't have it in :"that moment"..............but does that mean now.......that will happen again?

So in my thinking about this just as I've observed in myself......these are patterns and do "play out"....so if that's what you've got to go off of......you can extrapolate somewhat? But before you start down that road.....you've got to bring yourself "down" and by that I mean....."lower yourself" off you own "high horse" and quit being self-righteousness, and taking a victim stance yourself. If you've got two victims working against or opposed to one another.....it's never going to be better or nothing good will come of it? And if you are with someone who is stuck in that mind set......all they do.....is ruminate the same thoughts.....over and over...and they never get resolved. At least for yourself......even if he can't do it. And what I'm saying is......I am "immune" to my own tendencies and my own "defaults" and these are the "defaults" or "ways of thinking' you descried....."all of them"....and I have them too......but does tha mean....I'm going to "act on them" and actually "carry them out?"

And for me......I'm A BIG analyzer.....it part of my nature in fact.....this is what I do here? I analyze.....and I problem solve.......but I do that for fun just sitting on a park bench and observing people or the scene in front of me just out of curiosity? I don't have to "solve every problem" or even worry about the ones I figure out......but for me....."talking to myself" and "working it out"...."out loud" is just part of verbal processing and trying to "hear myself think". And I do it more.....if I am really thinking hard..and trying to "solve a riddle or a come to a solution to some kind of mystery. Processing...is not self generating ruminating negative thoughts.....it's not a self generating "loop" that increases with intensity as time goes on....and then finally "blows"....in these endless cycles...of "calm before the storm"...and then the "build up period......." then the frustration turns to resentment and anger...and then you blow. That is the "pattern"....and I saw clearly with D my soon to be ex...officially speaking.

And I can see part..and I can see her...and I can see what I do..and I can see what she does.....and I can see "both of us doing it"....or....."if only one of us is"...and that is where I had to bring it down to on my end.....to "see here end clearly". And for that matter......"so could she." That might have been the hardest and most difficult thing I've ever done........I mean.....here I am....."this person"....."who does these things"......';who has all of these tendencies"....and "the patterns too".....that has comes out at times or in different ways and has shown themselves.......but not chronically speaking......and I make corrections as needed. Either before...or after....but ..."I speak".......I'm "open" and not "close off" That communicates an ackowledtement and an awareness....of my part to play. And I do that in the "first person"....directly to her? No beating around the bush.....no innuendo....accusations.....or "speaking" vaguely and not explicitly....rigtht to the point. I can do that...if called upon when I know wha aI feel and I'm not operating solely on emotion and thinking things through?

And it starts with "I don't know"...because I don't. If someone is "closed off" from me, and operating "under the table" and using a bunch of friends, or brining outside sources, or anything along those lines.....they are already going "outside of the relationship"...but if you're the "closed off one" and "keeping this all a secret" and you are NOT talking to the person you are with...."or him" in this case ( because you are "afraid" ie: fear )......"you are sneaking"...."you are keeping secrets"...and you are operating "outside of the relationship" and not 'sharing it with him".   And the fact that you are going outside of the relationship.....and "gathering the troops" so ro speak.....in essene....."talking to all you friends" and telling them "things" that really you wouldn't normally........it's really easy to "justify"...."rationalize"....and make yourself "the victim" here and use or bring all manner of paranoid thoughts into this......and do the same thing you are saying he's doing?

And it starts with "I don't know". That is square one for everything with me....from I start...in bringing myself down. If you can't say...."I don't know" and mean it....not just "say it" but bring yourself to "0"...then you are already being presumptuous, self righteous, and kind of Narcissistic......in thinking you know something...that there is no way for you to know.....and then act on that....as if it were true. I've got to say this and I know better than anyone else.....if you doing that all the time....then being a Narcissist yourself. At the very minimum.....your are being or acting like a self righteous victim. No doubt. A rather "Narcissistic Self Serving, Self Righteous Victim"......all under one convenient heading. And if you are then justifying you own position in doing this.....then that "is who you are" right now or at these times? And i does come across ( to anyone...no matter who they are ) as being just that...since that much is "real"....especially on the receiving end of it. And it starts....always...with that "justification"....it comes out first thing always......it's "GIANT SCREAMING RED FLAG"....but there's more to it than that. You mentioned 'conspiracy theories" here ...and him ruminating and griding away and just generating this into something "more thn it really is"....and that right there is YOU....doing the same thing "he is"...which make you a hyppcrite...or monumental proportions. It makes you look really bad, especially when the other person is not doingt this? When I see and hear "hipocrocy".....I tend to dismiss everything that person has to say ..once they "play that card" and lay "it on the table". Once you've shown that hand * your pattern...or "expressly said the words or actions"...you've already shown your hand so to speak........there's no "putting it back in the pile"....and trying to pretend the other "card players"....didn't see your hand?   I mean....once you seen their hand......they can't put it back in the pile, or "take it back"....unless they do take it back...and sit down and tell you so? And "speak openly" about it and acknowledge to you, that allows them to know your thoughts and make them / you are aware of it? That is taking it back.......it doesn't change the "facts" but it does to change the dynamic and resolve anything that the "other person can't know"...unless you tell them? And if you can't tell them....without them becoming upset or overwhelmed......then your kind of stuck, right where you are? And now, you have to make a decision without them....based on your own well being, not theirs...whether it hurts them or not....it's not your concern anymore."hurt" is no longer your bussiness or conern...when you got you're to worry about......they are "on therir own" with that and the "past" is the best predicter of the future in that case. I mean, when and if you are "operating outside of the relationsip"....then you aren't in it......and if they are and you aren't saying so.......you are operating under a guise of deception and dishonesty and ...and you know, no one keeps that secret.......you don't have tp say anything, it shows through that Narcissism.....the one "that YOU ARE"...when ever you do this. YOU ARE THAT.....as long as your are operating like this...so at the very minumum......you need to own that part...and admit.....you are doing this.....untill you stop doing it anymore. I realize....it is..a no win....with someone who has a closed mind. Someone who thinks "concretely" with concrete....unchangeable beleifs and opinions....cannot reasoned with....they are "unreasonable"...they "irrational"..and they are fundamentally speaking.....being a "Block Head"....in concrete terms. LOL

Here's an example of the illogic and showing you just what I'm saying. The justification ( and Kernal of Truth ) I actually talked breifly to D friend on the phone the other day...and I was trying to understand what D's thinking was? And right out of her mouth came...."mens are stronger than women physically". Yes.....that's ture. Now what? Thats the justrification...and accusation......rolled into one very conveneint "excuse" than no one can argue with. That I recognized "instantly" as ....."us oh......Houston....we have a problem.....I see the flood coming..and I know where I know where that going. The card was played..and he friend played it. It's the same card that D played when I threw her off my property and told her to never return with the standard "legal" restraining language....which I am familiar with and so are you if you have that lefgal back ground. Two times.....the "card was played"....once by D....and once, by her friend.......that card is like the "Old Maid" with a big gigantic "V" on in. When the "Old Maid" gets dealt to you.....BAM....you kjow exactly what to do....if you been there before. There's no point even thinking it.......i's "game on mode" for them.....or it could be? Or might not be .....but you don't know? That where it always has to come back to....which means....they are already there......you are just figureing it out. You best interest is not their concern.....once the card gets played...the4re is no putting it back in the deck. Better safe than soryy. Always. In a gun fight.....the person who shoots first....wins. If "winning" is the name of the game...and once that card gets played.....it game on mode all the way...for your own self protection....especially if it really happend before. When you really have that expereince in the past...and it's "really real"....their no question that it's possible....not only possible......"Most Likely" in this case. Ocaams Razor....what it the simplist and most obvious or most likely thing that "MIGHT HAPPEN"......but you don't know. Betteer safe than sorry.......simple. Easy. No analzing necessary or trying to figure it out.kjow exactly what to do....if you been there before. There's no point even thinking it.......i's "game on mode" for them.....or it could be? Or might not be .....but you don't know? That where it always has to come back to....which means....they are already there......you are just figureing it out. You best interest is not their concern.....once the card gets played...the4re is no putting it back in the deck. Better safe than soryy. Always. In a gun fight.....the person who shoots first....wins. If "winning" is the name of the game...and once that card gets played.....it game on mode all the way...for your own self protection....especially if it really happend before. When you really have that expereince in the past...and it's "really real"....their no question that it's possible....not only possible......"Most Likely" in this case. Ocaams Razor....what it the simplist and most obvious or most likely thing that "MIGHT HAPPEN"......but you don't know. Betteer safe than sorry.......simple. Easy. No analzing necessary or trying to figure it out.

See for me....I already figure this out way in advance( long ago before I ever met my wife....and.... learning from my mistakes. In those moments of dispair and moments of suffering when I'd say....'why me......I wish I hadn't done that..".....or ....."I wish, I had done that other thing instead!!" "Please...God, give me another chance.....give me a "do over" so I can erase the past and go back and do it again? If I had it to over again......"I would have done this instead". And in these moments of clarity....that I almost never forget, because.....when things go back to normal again..and emotions and tensions ease...or later.....maybe years later ...you may never be in that situation again? But when you get the "hit" and you know what that is......"action", "expedience" and staying ahead of them...is the only way out. Survival of the "quickest" on the draw....means ..."no hesitation" and you've already woked it all out ahead of time...so when time comes you know exactly what to do it....without hesitation.....but you've worked through that "completely" and you have arrived at the "best and most reasonable thing to do" and ahead of time.....as "the prudent man" would do. You know that one...if you have a legal degree? It ever goes there...and that's where "they like to go".....if you got them in a box.and you cut off there legs off right from underneath them...they got no where to go...and no case against you. Legally speaking. You don't wait for them.....to see their hand.....when you know what hand their holding....when they've already shown you the "Old Maid". When someone slaps the Queen of Spades on the table.....( twice ) I don't even need to guess.....I "go with what I know...and run with it with a vengence. Aggressively, with facts and evidence...that no one can argue with. Proof of the pattern...and of the "type or person you are dealing with." And even if your wrong......better safe than sorry. No need to question...when you seen their play? The Queen of Spades...is the one card....I take absolutely seriously....and I see it in "Concrete" "Black and White" terms ...instantly. I see it one way...and one way only.....shoottfirst, thinking second....the only way to stay alive.....the Old Maid....."V" for victim is played. There is no more "dangerous" and more "damaging" person out their potentially than a Victim. It because they don't play fair.....and you mean nothing to them. Your best interest...in not their cvoncern and it really tough...to take that position with them.....but YOU HAVE TO......YOU HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE. That really is the bottom line...in this particular situation.

And what I've also found....is a person like D...will "enlist those troops"....and find "like minded people" to join them in taking you down.   Victims.....will always justify....based not on "facts"....but in the "fear f soemthing" that hasn't happened yet? And here I am....in that postion.....but here I am saying....the "exception to the rule". If the "fight is already happening"...and they are using "deception" as their means to weild it.....then you've got to "figt fire with fire" ....tit for tat.....if you are not in a relationship with them and they have "nefarious" "self gain" in mind.....with a mind set ....aimed at hurting you, vindictiveness", "pay back", " and revenge. the "Old Maid" or "Queen of Spades" ...has a "V" for victim in the middle....with "R" in every corner..with stamd for "Revenge"...it5's the "hit" I got ig time......and I know that one well. In that case..."a mans goota do...what a man's gotta do"......it's "game on"....whether I like it or not? And with nothing more to go off of...the past is all I got? She may be just "punishing me with the silent treatment".......that "could be the case?:"   But I don't know that? I don't know? Exactly to the point? "I don't know"...so I preceed accordingly......"as if I do." "As if I do"...is not different...exept, what I am likely to do...which I alreadu know? That 's just it........I'm not going to do....what "might happen or might be possible".....I know that and I have no fear of myself going down that road. I'm doing exactly what I said I would do....but I have to protect myself first. My own self interest...is in no ones hands but myself. You always better off dealing with things yourselfr...than bringing someone else into it.....unless "you absolutely have to". Pulling the trigger on a loaded gun to find you just shot you dog who you thought was a prowler....you cannot undo or take it back? Buidling a wall or defence with no means to penetrate and no recourse or "holes" in it.....make it so the prowler...the "sneak" of the "predator" has no means or has access to to? Better to speak softely...and carry a big stick....but some well placed or strategic "confabulation" is exadtly what Police to as well. "Creative liscense" and some "well placed" "statements or accusations and even "Bluffs"...is how they win at poker.....if you "have to play" even if you don't want to ....is exazctly where I am. I don't want to "play".....but it isn't my game I'm playing. Being better than you opponenet.....is the only way to win if you are only given a choice of "sink" or "swim" by the other person. By any and all means necessary...within the legal limits of the law...if that is the game they are plying ith you? You have no other choice....win or lose....it's the only option you have and the only one that is given to you. They are "not your friends"....they are you enemy in that case. Your best interest...is not in the cards.

And here's just an example of this in our relationship...going way way back to the beginning.....early in I saw it the pattern at a time...when she couldn't say anything aout me....I hadn't had a chance to do anything yet. It was one the first time I heard the word......"Abadonement Issues" come from her lips this is one of "those moments" that don't make and rational sense.

This was very early in our relationship and we decided to go play some pool and have a drink and get some food at a local eatery and bar. And it was fine....but all of sudden after she had a couple of drinks....BAM, her inhibitions were gone and now Ieft with kind of an asshole person. She had dropped her "nice facade" and now it was her in the uninhibited version. And she'll say things like ...."I'm a happy person when I drink" and I know she believes that? What is "real" is that, she is happy because she doewn't have to pretend and she can just let loose and it feels good. For her that is.....not so much, rfrom others perspective. That is 'Her saying" she's a happy drunk o someone who is "happy and liviely" and uninhiitied. Until something pisses her off or goes against her.....suddenly, she's not so happy in fact...she is doenw right mean and really nasty..and not " a happy person" AT ALL. This isn't the first time this had happened....it's just a good example just to illustrate it here?rfrom others perspective. That is 'Her saying" she's a happy drunk o someone who is "happy and liviely" and uninhiitied. Until something pisses her off or goes against her.....suddenly, she's not so happy in fact...she is doenw right mean and really nasty..and not " a happy person" AT ALL. This isn't the first time this had happened....it's just a good example just to illustrate it here?

So...she is getting a little belergerant..and really acting poorly and I was getting really annoyed and said....let go....( we had enough to drink ) or at least...I had and I wanted no more of what whas happeningt with her...because she was simply being agressive, offenisve, insulting, and dissmissive and "No FUN" to be around enjoy anymore. I figured...lets go home and maybe we can change this dynamic?

Bottom line is....she is not a "happy drunk" as she thinks....shes a 'bad drunk" and cannot hold her liquor, she gets mean, she gets nasty and she et very vinictive. Very vintidictive and it's all about revenge for her. Always. Iin fact...and she goes like a light switch.....one moment happy.....and one moment mean nasty and absusve...at the drop of a hat. I never fear her "htting me physcially"...that's not what she does......and the same goes me in that respect....I have NEVER HIT.........or stuck anyone ( never never a woman )...but I've torn things up...thrown things and "kicking the inanimate object"   yes. Fiercely in fact....but it's never been dircted ....directly at that person...as far as physical attack or; violence" is concerned. Whaat I'm doing in those moemnts and they are few and far between...is the same thing she does "dircted at me"....."indirectly speaking" and I mean that since.....historically.....zi'd take it outside and do it....when no one was looking   it doesn't ammter if there is an audience or not.......the "audience" or as a means to "threaten"....is not what I'm doing. In the past......my first option if I were to blow..;..is to take it outisde and far away from anyone..and just beat the crap out of a log or some poor innocent "object" ...when no one is looking? But it's happened....in the presense of someone......which is why I recognize it.....but it's still not the purpose too hurt with that intention.;....indirectly speaking. Is that a justification? Hell no. It's putting context and intention in to it....and saying there is a difference...and they are both equally bad in their own way and need to be stopped ...at all costs no excuses. Each time that happens...it's a failure on my part?

And again, back to "I don't know......."....and then looking at the past? Have I never physically "attacked" a woman or anyone aside from "grade school or even Jr High maybe? No . Never. There's the history...going way way back. So...the hitory says.....No.....and that's all you got to go off of? To predict if A will happen in the future? If it possbile for A to happen? Yes. Does the person have the potentional to harm you if A happens. Yes. Have they ever dojne things that look like it....but not the same thing? Yes. Have they hurt you in other ways.....but not that one? Yes. Could they do it...if they wanted to? Yes have they ever done what you fear most....to anyone before or you? No

What are they likely to do......since "I don't know?" Most likely....the very thing they've done in the past....in the same way they do it.....not a different one....but the same one.

So continuing with this example........I go to the bar and pay the bill, and their card reader won't read my card? Not declinded....the card won read? and the type the had...had no key pad to enter it manually? Great....shit happens by no fault of anyone? So I said told D......"look, my bank is right around the corner....less than 3 minutes away, you sit and relaxe and finish your drink..and I'll be right back with some cash, no problem." Which I did and it took less than 10 minutes for sure. ( less ) I come back inside to pay the bill....and D is no where in sight? And I ask the bar tender to pay the bill..and he says that D alreadey paid it? Like huh? But where is SHE? She's gone...but, I had left her sitting at the bar in a comfortable chair...that we had been sitting in for a couple of hours with the bar tender and other people there to chat with and she was ":very chatty".....being all lubricated like she was. She was not left "all alone"...she had people all around her and she was engaged with me and the enrtite group of poeple when I left to go get cash? No problem...one might think?   But the bar tender said he thought she had gone outsdie but it was freezing cold out there....but they hyad a heater going in a desgnated smoking section and there she was huddled by herself outside and she was all pissed off and beleigerant again? And I could understand what she was doing and why? I mean...why pay the bill when she knew I was going to get cash? Why ...leave and gto hide out outside and make me find her all alone sulking and getting angry all by herself? Why get upset at me....for the card reader not working and me having to go get cash around the corner?? Why do that...and what's up with that?

When I finally got her to calm down....her answer was this....."I have abandonement issues......I mean, you never know when a person isn'[t coming back even if they say they will and I'm in a strange town and don't know my way around."

I'm not going to dissect that statement and just leave it where it sits.....but to say.......that meant nothing to me at the time? That did not expalin..nor4 tell me what she was doing and why? That did not.......explain to me or make sene to me....in what I just expeeinced....but she was aleady becokmg even more upsetting to me than before....once the light swithch "flipped" gtoing all the way ack to when we were still 'ahaging fun an playing pool. Until the light swithch flipped..and then it was not fun any more..for me that was......I was getting a really upset stomach and I was feeling really bad as I remember. I had had...and really rough week at work..and it was getting cloer to X-mas and my work load was already getting crazy and I just wanted to go haome and realize and maybe.....be intimate or something?    Being that tit was at the beginning...and she did not "live with me at the time"

Plus, she was right there watching this all take place....standing right next to me watching it happen? No real need to explain this to her....as I thought it was pretty obvious. A somewhat common thing that happens, with card readers and magnetic srtips sometimes?

So I experessed this what what happening with me and that I really needed to lie down ror a minute to digest ( everything includeing the food and drinks )..andshe went off on me....and started chastizing me, degrading me and attacking me in a very emascualting way. I was laying back in a chair...with my knees up to my chest...in obvious discomfort...and that's when she really went after me. Standing above me in the doorway...complaining mercilessly...while I beggted her to stop. At that moment in time...I was going "wow".....I'm not sure this is going to work out with us......but she 's drunk....I'll give her te benefit of the doubt since she did have a lot to drink. She took that as I rejected her....and was refusing to have sex or not wanting to....which was absolutely not happening.....in the asme way....i "wasn't abadonding her"...if the cad reader didn't work..and I had to run around the conrner to get some cash? But she punished me as thougth I was.....is everything she did as her response to me. All of it ...was her lashsing out and making me pay....for what I could not know adhead of time? Because she didn't communicate that to me.....or let me know what she was thinking? She thought the worst of me...and brougth the worst out of me...instead. I wasn't even fighting back at that time....but it was those moments, when I was "sick" hurt or injured..and the most vulnerable of all....when she would attack even harder..and come at me with all she's got. Consistatnely....and reapeatedly.....it always the same pattern.

That's the pattern right there. I just showed it to you so you can see it. It's always the same....in every case.....different circumstances.....same exact pattern and behavior. Assuming that I know something there is no way to know.....intentially setting up so she can play the victim....but really as a means to justify "taking it out of me"....for what there is no way for me to know ahdead of time...and making it impossible for me to correct the situation..then domes the abuse and punsihsment...full ON predator behviors...and laying in wait until the victim is helpless with no recourse to come back from? It is the most underhanded..and most deceptively manipuloative thing I have ever expereinced in my life. It a sick pleasure...and it is something to fear.

Later that week when she was home a couple days went by...I don't rmember who but I think she called me since I was really not going to call her back since I was still very hurt and upset over that? and I bascially and politely called her out of it and told her what I thought about it....and her reply I will always remember........"Yeah...I was being a "Brat"" But she actully said later that she apprecieated me telling her that...and standing up for myself?

She wasn't being a Brat.....that's not what I'd call it? And even if she did later apprecieate me "telling her"...she didn't or doesn't in the moment. In the moment..when she is "absusing the shit out of you...and enjoying it to say the least"

And the last thing my T and my self had told her that she said she hadn't thought6 about and how whe apprecieatd hearing him say it......"that he's feeling abbandoned right now"......youu know, you are leaving him?

And what does she do with that littel tid it of information? The same thing she always does.........revenge and pay back...is a way of life for her.

I start with "I don't know"...and then use that as my baseline........past patterns speak louder than words.......hate...rather than Love...is the cureency in all cases here? I could be wrong...I may well be wrong......It quit possible that I'm wrong...and I would eve be "shocked" if I was wrong.........but....."I don't know?" Excpet...for everything I said. You will never regret......not making the right decision wshen you own safetly and well being...is not what the other person is trying to do and what they are trying to do is "hurt you intentially....cause...they like"...and my it, It makes them feel good about themselves"..and my job...is to simply stop them from ding that...any way I can. That is all I need to know.....I made that decsison long ago......whn push come to shove and I have made peace with everyting in my thinking....and I know what my motivvations is for doing it. When someone Hates you........you know it when you feel it.......and without qustion and if their intention is to "hurt you".. you are in your rights to stop them anyway you can.... legtally speaking....shoot first, ask question later since that is exactly what they are doing......iff it's a gun fight in the street that is..whether you like it or not with a ( concrete ) mind that works that way..it can't or won't change....not will much of anything make them stop ...... ....but you can burn the bridge bhined you and get to the other side..amd then keep on moving and nver look back and gets some distance between you.

Sometimes....cutting your losses is the only way to go....but torching the bridge and keeping "yourself "safe on the othe side.....as a means to not have to be looking over your shoulder...or keep looking behind you ....just in case? Revenge is nasty nasty bussiness........it's a no win, for the person doing it..and for the victim...in every case. Better safe than sorry...I always say..... if that is what "it appears like they are doing?" With deleiberate intention.....or it won't just happen...all by itself. No one is going to come save you or rescue you in time.......when it comes down to just you and them in a gun fight....and it 's just you...all by yourself.

PS I forgot to include a very important point here just to say it in a different way here. Of course....when using "gun fights" as a metaphor.....there are "no guns" to speak of in a "real physcial way". It's a metaphor....solely.....and the same thing when talking abou any of this......what are we talking about here? If you aren't rolling on the ground...having a physcial contest as a regular thing you do.....if you aren't "sparring" for real and hitting and biting and scratching each other on the ground and punching and kicking each other and beating each other up physcally speaking.......then what makes you think....it will suddenly happen now...when it has never happened before? it's the Kernal of truth again.....but that doesn't make you guilty..of something you have never done except...to the person with this problem......case in point. A loose cannon is a loose cannon....but the past is still the best predicter of the future....in the methods and means and they way they "fight" more importantly....it's the pattern itself and what their "goal" is...in doing it...that's the thing that I worry about..and is most concerning to me.

J

Thanks for chiming in.

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Wed, 08/30/2017 - 17:14

Thanks for chiming in.

Your Welcome

Submitted by kellyj on Wed, 08/30/2017 - 22:30

As I'm wrestling with a great deal of remorse and feeling of regret....but even reading myself here.....I was trying to expose myself and the dynamic as openly as I could? My thoughts are right there so often when thinks are going well of you are feeling conflicted feelings that are difficult to process through. I was following through in respect to doing a little more research just to see what I could find.....not so much for dirt...but my peace of mind. I have the deepest respect and admiration for any time I see a situation where there's just a lot of obstacles and real life challenges can make "life" in general, a difficult thing. With a little effort and a little searching and what little I had to go on......I pretty much found everybody up to a point and that was enough. And in respect to their privacy...I don't need to go in the details here....but only to say that I went in with this idea of getting all the facts....and what I came out with was a real human story, of many people who are connected and disconnected by the same very few people and namely D herself. I don't know what to think right now....in light of what I was saying? I don't know how to feel other than a deep deep sadness and regret. Regret...because in my own way I could relate and understand her very well and no one can be that good an actor......it simply the "secrets" that she's been keeping and holding to herself. It's a tragedy really...and there is nothing you can do about it. What I saw were people in a really wide range of types and sizes and I saw the remanent and some pictures from some past pin up boards and some pictures. And it told me more of the story of her life....than she ever told me and instead of making me angry....it gave me an entirely new perspective. And now this huge regret...that this was not something she could share with me? Maybe she is doing it "intentionally" and this is just how she learned to live? I think, more than anything that anyone would have it rough under those circumstances although....the cart before the horse here? Who knows?

The saddest part in that for me but with a great deal more compassion and actually respect for the fact what I saw there....is what I saw too, a person who wanted it so bad, she couldn't make it happen and is trying to force it and "make it happen" and it eventually drive people away. I didn't see any financial benefit ...in what any of those many people were doing...not just the family but the ones she was chasing after. The tragedy for me was that I was posed to give her really what she wanted...but she had to do something on her part that she just couldn't do. And I can see it in the story of her life on a times line....and it is the repatition of the same thing over and over. Just over a long period of time...and a number of different stops along the way. She has a numer of different names she gone under, but those were ex's ...so each one had a name change....but there so many versions of each one it got so confusing and mixed up after while. OMG.....it was making my head swim.

What I saying is the same thing again but from a different perspective. A lot more compassionate once I did that search. But here I am....after the fact....just now finding these "not so minor details" out of the wife that I Loved and lived with? She was my life partner...as I set out to be....but the tale of the tape I saw....it was not meant to be from the get go and that is the saddest part of all.....I could see it her eye and in her heart...that she wants the same thing as everyone, maybe more so from the looks of her history. The longest she has been married to anyone looks like not much more than us? A little more....but not much more than that? And it's generational........it started in the depression with D grand parents right in the middle of it. From Indiana to the dust bowl..and then out west to find work. It was a hard life,....hand to mouth. Not much joy in that. I feel humbled and at the same ...admire D for her heart and courage...even for lack of know how I really do. It is what I Loved about her I know...which is why the regret. But you still have no control over another person...they are simply going to do what they do and they have to want to change or ask for help? All you can do is keep yourself safe and do what you doing. I just had a moment to share.

J

J

Submitted by Chevron on Thu, 08/31/2017 - 07:49

These are some pretty important posts about you. I can see maybe a surface similarity with several details of what Kitty is going through, but to me, J, you and she are in different situations...and of course dealing with different partners.

I didnt want it to slip by that you're doing some important stocktaking, after a separation. The inquiry about what D wasnt telling you and the discoveries it led to, if I were you, would set me back emotionally for awhile as I integrated and accepted what I had learned. This journey of seeing with your mind and understanding may be more like a 26 mile marathon, not 5K in which you can sprint. As I was beginning my first leadership assignment of a group at work, I asked a guy who had a lot of years of that under his belt what his advice to me was and he said, "Wait before you act. More will come out" That was certainly true. He also said, when I asked how to win with upper leadership, on behalf of my unit, "Always know more about it than they do" Not to show off, but to decide what moves I'd take on behalf of the unit.

I suspect that you're in a long game, J, not a short sprint. Your compassion as you learn things moves me.

LOL, time to roll off into a day of washing clothes and dratted yardwork. I do like to see things grow,

Chevron

I'm Not Crazy!!! I Swear I'm Not LOL

Submitted by kellyj on Thu, 08/31/2017 - 13:33

Chevron,

At this point I'm reeling and just trying to let it all soak in. What we had here, is beyond..."failure to communicate"...and this where, I might be a little arrogant ( white man privilege lol )...or I man be just naive ( still...sigh lol )...or something is going on in that family that is outside of my imagination but what it looks like to me.....is a lot of people who either a ) have been so blinded and lied to themselves, that no one has bothered to check and really find out for themselves? And none of them care about their family history and they just don't really give a damn? .........OR....B) they all know and no one is telling and there is some BIG GIGANTIC SECRET that they are all in on but no one else?

I've gotta go with B right now. LOL But what that is exactly I may never know but......when the story you are told of "who your family is" with all the stories to go with it...and then some extened family who are of 'hispanic" origin ( removed by blood ) and you hear all these stories about the mother and ...you know, this you normally talk about the tell you spouse...or even boyfriend....or even someone you've just met and are dating causally.....you know, like something you might even share with a stranger even on a long bus ride? You know.....those kinds of things?

And then you come to find that "all of those people" aren't even directly related to "the imdiate family" including you wife" since they all have a different last name? My wife did change her last name after she got divorced last......and she did had good reason as she explained and I beleive that part really from what I know.....but no has ever mentioned "this other side of the family".....her mothers grandmother, mother, father etc......or their story. Like it doesn't exist. However.....the middle names of the parents...seemed to have been given to her brother...since it's my fathers name too and it was kind of a tradition to hand down male fathers names as middle names as I did too.....from my fathers father and his middle name. Nothing unusual there....but....her mom had a twin sister I never heard of? BUT.........in all the stories I heard....I was told of all the places that D had lived and moved to and moved around a lot. Well......"all those mystery family members"....just so happened to live in those places too...and there was a ton of overlap in address's over the years...so obviously...they were all living together at different times in the same addresses. Which is why they ended up where they did....because of those family members?

I mean, I went to a memorial service....at supposedly D's "uncles"..or her mom's.brothers house.....but that entire side of the family...has absolutely "no relation" to her mothers side of the family? None? And her mothers, mother ended up in S Califronia ( died there ) and there is a connection there to when Dawn whet to college? Not far from there as well as different places she's lived? Including the east coast, Florida, Ohio, and Conneticuit.....and she never mentioned it? In fact...she never mentioned any of it and instead...said that her mother suspected that she was not from that family and was the "red haired step child" and that families father didn't like her or didn't get along with her well? No kidding.....he wasn't even her father and apparently was no relation to them what so ever? Unless that is some huge lie...or some huge secret....that no one is telling? Including D mother...and never told her kids? Her mother though......lying was a way of life and I think it was a way that they all did it together? It's hard to imagine though...that with a few hours of doing the "Anncestry" .com...and then doing some phone searches and back grounds checks to verfy the different sights to be accurate........there is a story.....man, there is a story...and if D was sitting her in front of me...I'd be saying 'LUCCEEEE!!! You GOT SOME SPLAIN'IN TO DO!!"........BIG time.

I don't know that much about someone disorder....to know that "full memeories" with "no recollections" of these things from your childhood or even being told...is possible? My brain says NO....and so does my gut. It's been screaming at me going.....Okay, will someone let me in on the joke? This can't be accurate or even the truth...so either.....you are lying "by omission".....or your memory is really that bad as "you say you can't remember".

I think D....learned a long time ago...that when ever she doesn't want to say anything or "talk about it"........those three words and a tantrum ( muzzling and dismissing ) will go a long long way. That's what I think cause that's what she did..."every time" ..with me....I also think she knows exactly what the story is..and she is keeping that to herself. Or most of it.......I can't believe and entire side of the family...just goes missing? Know what I mean? Something...is definitely rotten in Denmark......I just wish someone who has seen this kind of thing before....could tell me possibly what that means? I know where the "link" is or the place in respect to the country...and I know how they got there.....and it appears "grandma" somehow got separated from her second husband ( D real grandfather died a year after her mom and her sister were born....and ended up moving back home to live with her grandfather and "one kid" went west ( with someone????? and ended up there ) while the other one went with "mom" ( the grandmother ) and the other one didn't? At about 3 years old or so ...so that might be true.....they all lied and that's what they think? And no one bothered to look but see...her mom knew where they were and lived with them later an so did D and her brother. They all moved together in between "men" on her mothers end each time she had to go find a new one.....it was the pattern...and it continued to the end.

And no wonder...the "so called brothers" were really getting annoyed with her mother and the care she needed.....they felt like D and her brother needed to do that....and they were someone else. D kicked her mom out of the house...shorty after she met me in fact....I met her once when she was still living there...and D gave her the boot. She was a nightmare and needed full time care so that was generous of D to take her in for the while...but she became intrusive..and demanding...and ...you know the rest of the story? whew! I'm still not sure how to feel about all of this....but it really told me....my intuition was working ( well enough )to tell me at least, I'm not just crazy after all!! LOL I wasn't...or am not paranoid ) a little ) for no reason at all.....I think that counts...for suspicious behavior don't you?That story was incoherant and not cohesive....in reality...it wasn't and that wasn't just in D or her brothers imagination but it was real. Just from the looks of it....it was all over the place....literally.

My comment early before I found this out about the "tip of the ice berg"........I think I validated myself on that one...and how! LOL

J

No, you're not crazy, J. You're peculiar.

Submitted by Chevron on Thu, 08/31/2017 - 21:18

: D Takes one to know one :)

Well, sounds like Ancestry.com is providing you tantalizing questions about D's extended family. Bless yo u I as you aim to see what you can.

You know, I really buy into the idea that there's this thing called a relationship that is not one partner and not the other, but is something else that is neither individual, and both partners maintain and create the relationship. This sound sort of psychobabbly but I think its true. That for me means that the problems in the relationship are the product of both people interacting. Not just one. Not just the dysfunctional family history of one.

This is hard to take if one of the two obviously is a control freak or an abuser but short of one's partner having something like a brain aneurism and waking up in total rage, with a gun to blow everything away, it takes two to do relationship. If the relationship cant work, you do your best to decently stop it.

So what I'm working at here is that I think you need to see what you can understand about where D was coming from in her actions in the relation, no question, but it's never going to give you settled peace, to stop at the guesses about that , even good guesses. Ancestry.com an your,thinking about it will get you to serious possibilities about D's family. Maybe that's enough, if you,plan to break it off with her for good.

There's this thing about people who divorce, whether they're men or women. They ruminate and talk with their friends, working on their account...everyone needs an account...I'm serious...until they get to a version of the story f their relation and what went wrong with it that they can live with. You hear people who divorced working with their account around swimming pools at apartment complexes and in bars. I'm not criticizing. Everyone needs to have a livable account of how it was, or how it is. Whether in relation, or looking back on it. Divorced people work hard to find a version of things that they can live with.

The thing is J, have you decided to end it with D, or are you willing and wanting to see what happens next with her? Because if you want something with her, only she, not your Ancestry.com research, is where you'll find knowledge that lights your way forward with her. If you want to be with her, you cant totally be the one to interpret her. Irealize that she's very hard put, to tell you about her own things.

Wishing you well. However things come out.

Pax,

Chevron

Hi Kitty....

Submitted by c ur self on Fri, 09/01/2017 - 00:12

Some times we can get to comfortable (use to it) with dysfunction...And not really see the true danger, it can come from seemingly no where in a flash....If you choose to be in his presents again ( I hope not) I like your comment about the poker face...(no reaction to his unstable actions)....The comment you made about turning his music down and recording him as he was going off...I suggest you refrain from that....A mind so unstable will view that as an act of defiance or an open attack....It's dangerous....

I pretended to record a ugly outburst filled w/ profanity several years back...(something she would never want anyone to know about her) and when I told her I had recorded it (we were in transit on the Interstate) she lost it, and attacked my physically as I was driving....I had to hold her off of me with one arm as I tried to get the car over onto the shoulder....She could have killed us both....You never know when someone will attack you.....

Best wishes working through a very difficult situation...

I definitely got used to it

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Fri, 09/01/2017 - 01:34

I definitely got used to it and prepped for it/braced for it. Finally being away from him I've been able to relax. My mind is back to the way it was in some ways: active and focused on my community of people. What I've done over the last couple of days is reach out to people to let them know what's going on, and I realized I became one of those women: I disappeared. I chatted with a friend from law school today and he said something like "hopefully, it won't be three years between the next time I hear from you". I'll never let a relationship distract me from my friends again. These are the very people who'll have my back when I need them.

Turning the music down is me. I like loud music at a concert or in my car, but I like my home to be peaceful. He knows this. Basically, what he was doing the day before and day when I left was crossing all those lines he chose not to cross when we were together. He was sending me a very clear signal about where his head is. I know I shouldn't turn it down, but I refuse to be a doormat. It's clear he's got some sort of mental illness, but even with people that live on the street who are unstable, a lot of them know just how far to go. Even at the height of his rage yesterday he knew exactly where to stop: the line was physical contact because he was physically in my face and trying to intimidate me.

Are you OK?

Submitted by sickandtired on Tue, 09/05/2017 - 20:43

Just wondering because we haven't heard from you in a few days. I hope you are OK.

I care, too. Let us know how

Submitted by Chevron on Tue, 09/05/2017 - 21:09

I care, too. Let us know how you are when you can and want, Kitty. Good wishes.

Yes I am.........."It's a Beautiful Mind " ( lol )

Submitted by kellyj on Sun, 09/10/2017 - 19:50

I was thinking about that movie with Russel Crow and about the scenes with his room, filled with sticky notes all over every surface of the walls and ceilings with arrows and lines drawn to connect all the "dots". Or when he was brought into the room with all the code numbers running in columns on screens that covered the room in the same way, he could pulled all the like codes sequences out and see them in the sea of numbers he was looking at. And I went....."I understand that" LOL More than you might think but I don't think I'm schizophrenic even if maybe mildly "schidzoid" and I'm saying that as a euphemism not as any basis on anything other than a word that sounds like someone who is scattered or "spastic" ( more euphemisms ) or even "tardo" ( more and more euphamisms ) and none of it means anything......but I would simply agree with any of them to describe me sometimes no problem. lol It's still speaks to ADHD mostly and mostly to do with attention, focus, and a very different perspective on things sometimes. Not always but usually or many times the case. But saying that doesn't mean that there are components of all of this that makes me wonder sometimes too...but I was really thinking about what sick and tired was describing in her boy friend and the paranoid delusions and what not like that? Especially now when emotions are high, I don't always trust my own best judgment and need something to bring me back on line? My answer is immediately the "Truth" ...but when the "truth" or the full story is not available...it can lead the mind to filling in the blanks since that is what the mind wants to do. As C was saying as well about the "truth"....becoming something different than it really is and it's not always based on the facts or having enough information ....but sometimes it is...and the information or some means to give you the insight or the counseling to help you get there is the only means to do it.

I know, you can't read into another persons mind...to know what they are thinking or what they are going to do ahead of time and if they never told you that or let you in on it....you will know what they were really doing or thinking despite what they were saying to you that was different.   If there was a secret or double life going on behind your back....you would never know all that you missed or were left out on or out of the loop. And right now especially....I'm simply recovering and healing and doing a lot of reflecting mental work to process this all through and that in itself is exhausting. The whole thing is so I'm talking some time to rest and recover and heal so I've got the time....to do some "inventory" of the "all those past moments" and put them all together to possible help fill in the blanks and complete the whole story. For me.....that's just closure...and then putting it to rest...once I have all the facts and findings put together to complete the picture and complete the "whole book". This is the like "book"....and now your on the last chapter. But you got to have all that and all that you missed first or were not privileged too the first time around....before you will have ............."CONTINUITY" lol. That, is my favorite new word. lol   Like when you take two wires and put them together......picture, "Clark Griswald" ( Chevy Chase...Christmas Vacation ) standing out in his front yard with the last two extension cord ends and puts them together and his entire house lights up......lol. "CONTINUITY".......all the dots ( or X-mas light bulbs....have to connect to complete a circuit of any kind. BINGO! lol Just like Clark! lol

And it's kind of like what happened but it really goes back to my radar as I'm calling it. This is just part of your intuition but it's where the "hits"...as I'm calling it comes from. I don't no what else to call them but they are emotional hits or blips and they come from someone "who is not me"....kind of like a built in lie detector but mainly....it just 'registers hits". Just like a sonar or radar ..."sensor"....it simply registers an "alert"....any time it "sweeps" across something that triggers it or "sends it off". And these "hits" as I am calling them....don't mean anything by themselves. Any story or theory or hypothesis I come up with from these "hits" themselves can mean nothing to what I put on them to what I think they mean....but the fact is...."they are real"...and that is where my "gut" comes in. This is my "gut" speaking to me...that's pretty much it. It is not of "the mind" and mental thinking....it's simply a sensory "response" or "reaction" ...to something else. I think the only important thing to say here that I am absolutely sure of....that these are tied to a "physical,thing, place, times, event,and or happening....in relationship to something else. Either person, place, animal, mineral,vegetable or otherwise known as..."noun". Or something "real". I could go on into all the explanations I've read or heard as to what this is or why it happens but....in my life time of living on this planet......I've to find only from finding out and looking or going to the trouble to actually investigate these "hits" as I'm calling them.....these things are all tied to something "real" and hare a clue to a bigger picture.....like a "Constellation of Stars ".

God...my head was swimming and I had no where to go ..so I was standing outside now days ago.....and I was staring up at the Big Dipper and remembering the line you draw to find the "North Star" called "Polaris"....which if you know anything about Astronomy....the entire night sky revolves around "Polaris....the "North Star"......which is what you learn anytime you are out hiking or on a boat or any time you are simply trying to navigate a course or even to set one as the "one constant" that never changes. "Polaris"...is the "ONE CONSTANT"....here that you can always count on to never change or go away or disappear in the sky. Night or day......it is always there since it is the pin hole in the pin wheel right in the middle and the axle and axis point that everything turns on and moves around it in a circle.

And that's when I did that in the night sky..and took those two stars at the end of the "dipper"...and drew a line from them going both ways...that either point....or finally intersect with "Polaris" since that would be one "spoke' on the wheel? If "Polaris" is the 'hub" you might say? And the I went.....OMG.....again. Once you know ir have the "king pin".....then everything else falls into place. And it's the same with my "hits". Once I take them, and reflect back a bit....."hind sight" is 10X more powerful...than "foresight" or even "insight' is since "hindsight" is "real sight" that already happened and you were there. And that is where the "hits" ...if you take them and line them up.....they too draw a line or a pointer to a direction as put...it you see them just as "stars" but you need a number of them to form an entire "constellation" or "picture". And I'd been going back through all the phone records again and it was 1,000's of texts...not just a few hundred and there were so many different phone numbers and it was just a quagmire to be sure.....until I saw the "Big Dipper"....and at a moment of despair...and it gave me the answer I was looking for. since then....I've got that "picture" pretty complete. I've all those diagrams and arrows and connecting the dots and what each dot means and who each dot is......and then suddenly "Clark" finally gets all the connections made and the entire house just "lights up"....like "Oh Joy".....but only for a moment. It's the truth whether you like it or not.....and like it or not....has nothing to do with "it" or "you" when you are concerned and that is the most troubling aspect of this as far as safety is concerned. When you see all the players and who the "king pin" is here and how they all connect up........and you were told a completely different story.....most of this was missing.....and most of these people were said to be...or in some way removed....from who and what they are and in relation to "whom"? LOL It's like.....when almost "everything" .......or let's say 60% "of everything",,,,you have ever heard of "these people"......"who these people are"......"where these people work"........."who these people work "for"......and "who's on first".......check all the above..............is different than what you were told.....then I'd say something is wrong....and those "hits" should be listened to closely. This is one of those things that I just "know what I know" and what I mean by that is "my gut" and "the hits". THOSE HAVE NEVER BEEN WRONG.......or ........DID NOT HAVE A SPECIFIC , CONTEXTUAL , REAL CONNECTION TO SOMETHING HAPPENING, IN RELATIONSHIP WITH ME AND "SOMETHING OR SOMEONE ELSE".....specifically. I'm not yelling. lol I'm nearly emphasizing that to make a point.   I don't know what those "hits mean"..."....but they always mean something and this is that "thing" that I've come to find that I cannot tell everyone or that everyone always has any idea or way or knowing what I'm talking about. But all I know is this and this is all I know.   When my "scanner" on my "radar" sweeps across a hit...it is almost alwasy coming "from...or as directional pointing....."from a sender" to "me" in a kind of unconscious way. I register "emotion that is not mine".......on my radar screen and it sends out an alert. It's just a "blip"...but it very real. I normally...I walk on bye....it happens all the time but some are "worse" than others and especially when it happens at home. My gut...has got a couple of "special alarms" set on it as it appears...and when those "go off"....then that registers as a "big time hit"...and those I don't foret about. Those get put into a special "keep current" catagory ...until that "threat" is somehow resolved or some meas to do so and simply getting the truth does that in an instant. But it's not going to be exactly the one you thought in your imagination....but close is good enough...as long as I get the "big picture" and "I CAN SEE THE FOREST FROM THE TREE'S...AND WHO ALL THE TREE'S ARE".......

And with that Chevron....I thank you again.and I can also include a couple of other things that I have done recently to protect myself in this case. Once I knew the who, the what, the where, the how and the why ( pretty close if not exactly yet...but I've got some more things to dig through and one thing I have to send off for to get. Just more phone numbers and that's all I really need. It is absolutely amazing to "forensically" go through just lists of phone numbers in sequences based on one sitting...as someone does naturally speaking. Not thinking anything other than their day in the moment of time....when they decide to pull out their phone and text someone. And then who they text next after that. And then who they text next after that.....and then "which number responds to the text" and "who it belongs too". In just one "volley" back and forth.....the amount of information one can gather is staggering.....and the tentacles and stars can fill an entire quadrant of the that little "world" or inside constellation of stars.' And I had just given up since it was just a gigantic unconnected ball of phone lines that kept crossing over each other. But in my "real experience" with "these people" themselves...I got these little "hits" and a couple of "kind of big ones" and out of everyone involved....I was still not seeing it. I didn't get any real sense or vibe from anyone including D that there were any guys involved or guys in the picture but.....I'm not done yet just for the sake of following through so I don't really want to say anything for sure since I don't know for sure.

The thing is J, have you decided to end it with D, or are you willing and wanting to see what happens next with her? Because if you want something with her, only she, not your Ancestry.com research, is where you'll find knowledge that lights your way forward with her. If you want to be with her, you cant totally be the one to interpret her. I realize that she's very hard put, to tell you about her own things.

You were reading that before I looked up and saw the "Big Dipper"..and had my "Polaris" epiphany. These are , or more "was" , what I was struggling with but each time it came back to "no, not until....." .."what?". There was just something not right...those hits again and they "always" mean something ....what that is....I still have to find out for myself but they are connected to something "real" but "invisible" at the same time. But I know what I know....the "blips" neither lie...nor tell the truth....but like the stars they '....."Point" and eventually "intersect" then they all connect together to form "ONE BIG LIGHTED UP PICTURE".......with everyone exposed with little "bobble heads"...in each position on the map...with all those lines all those intersection and they all light up together...to "form "ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY".....or how ever many you have in "your picture".....the one just like Russel Crow had...on all the walls and ceilings in his room covering the entires place.

And once you can do that.....you can step back...step out of the room qo and stand up in the viewing room....looking down at the fully illuminated map you've created and sit with it for a while and just look at it. No.....Ancestry .com was a side interest I had with my own family so I went there first searching for back ground information. It had little to do with what I see as the "ELEPHANT" in the room here unless I am totally mistaken. But just taking for example...you come to find that someone is calling you from many different phone numbers that all trace back to the same person......what might you think? Who has bouncing call ability...and who can bounce or rotate between numbers in a group with different names ....but the names are all tied to the sa,me kind pin or "hub" meaning....."one person". And this person.....is the "first person you call in the morning when you go to bed at night. And was the last person you thought of...before you went to sleep? Who you called always at the same times of day..and for the most part......"lunch time"....."just before work"....."just after work"...and then later it didn't matter since those numbers starting getting scrambled ...until you broke the "code and the sequences" which is the most important part. The "Constellations" of "Stars".....never lie. They are as real as a text message.....you don't even have to what was said.....only who said it, when, where and how....and to "whom"......"how often","how long"." and possibly "when it started". I know when it started as to when I was "introduced".....but when it really got going.....I know it was going "BIG TIME"....when I got the "HIT"....from that person themselves.   At first it didn't register right and I was not at all placing it.....but boy when I placed it....."Clarks House Lit Up". ....continuity again ....just a blip on the radar screen at the time.

All I know is....there is a 'GIGANTIC ELEPHANT" of a story here and I'd love someday to hear from the source.....but more than anything else.....it's been a huge secret..and I was "lied to" with "intention" to cover it up and hide it from me with "an agenda" in mind that is all down on paper...with "documented dates of sales"....."property being traded around" between parties......":profeminist of properties appear to be closely grouped" and "several players" making exchanges of properties and moving around with multiple phone numbers....cross referenced addresses and lots of "moving around but the "kind pin" as I am saying this has a criminal record that is most concerting to me currently. "Unlawful breaking and entry"....within the past 3 years. Two different case as well as being sued twice with judgemental against her. Oh...and it's a "HER".....NOT A "GUY". Unless all the "hers" got to together to "hide the guy" from me that doesn't appear to exist.......there appear to be no "Roosters" in the "Hen House"....but there might be an rather aggressive "Hen"...who is feeling rather contemptuous and protective of her "chick"....you might say? And especially...as these things go......those who have something to hide....will go to great lengths to keep that hidden....that is...."outside of certain circles......" I must say, I'm a bit naive....but not when it comes to my gut. My gut is never naive and my gut says.....that there's a private "club" here...and I am absolutely "not welcome" to say the least. Wrong "Gender" baby.....that's your answer there. My gut registers"....."hatred and contempt"....."coveting and jealously"......"envy and pettiness"....."possessions and dominance" in a world I know nothing about but I got that feeling again in a different place and a different time...but with the same group of people including the "inner circles" as put.   There is no way.......as a guy.....you don't pick this up from a gay :"woman" or "lesbian". I've spent enough time around "one couple" in particular and seen the gay male counter part couples to get the basic drift. There's a "man role" and a "female role" in both whether they would say that or not....."it there" big time....you "can tell"....not question from looking at it from the outside...and the "male lesbian role".....are the ones who "do not like men" normally...and can be very aggressive and hostile. "man haters" as they are called since they do pretty much "don't like men" or "hate them" either way. Some of them but this is more than just a stereo- type though and it has some merit based on hearing it from the other side as well. But the "female role" lesbians seemed more in general to get along with men and are more easy going about their interactions...but the "more testosterone you add in here"...the more aggressive they become which makes sense since it's he same or men. But on the receiving end of it.....it comes through only one of two ways. 1) You're invisible. Dismissed....immediately. Done. It is....as "un-warm"....."unfriendly"....."cold....fucking "chilling" like ice cold"....feeling...you could ever get. "Unwelcoming" "invisible", "indifferent", "no matter"........ I mean....you get it from guys sometimes too....but that just it......when you get that sense from a guy.....it's time to start moving the other direction or give that person a "wide wide birth".

So when I get that "weird hit" out of the Blue....and then no "word of this prominent person" in D';s life right after we didn't show up to "New Years Eve Dinner"....that she made "just for us...."....as it appeared.....that the "New Years Eve Party"....wasn't really a party after all.....but an intimate dinner party.....just the 3 of us. And "WE" didn't show up because of the weather...and there was a "huge problem from this" that never made any sense. And then the comment about "if she will ever speak to me again"...and then....................nothing............after that. Not a mention of "this person again" and in fact.....rarely a mention.....of the person who calls and she calls at day break ....morning, noon , at night and at lunch.......and has racked up for minutes than anyone "BY FAR"     and was spending more time, more conversations and more interactions with D than any one other person ......now going back so far...2 years with more info to track in the same way when it comes back to me.

Also....the relationship with "this person"    was kept from me as well. I was sold a bill of good apparently....and the rabbit hole has many many tunnels too it and goes quite deep indeed. I am most worried about as I am calling it "the agents" or "minnions" of these people. The "King Pin" in question....is clearly not above "breaking and entering" and a lot of networking and a lot of secrecy with a maze of numbers and covert operating that I thank my lucky stars just to figure this out. The Big Dipper......it's a Beautiful Mind....sometimes for sure.......and I never had to leave the farm as they say....in the privacy of "your own home"......LOL    A phone log can "paint a picture" of the "mind set" and "what that person is thinking"....when they think it....how often they think iit...and how many times they think it....in the course of one day.   Now .....10X's that by 1000 days....and now you have a time line...and a constellation...and other little constellations of constellations.......the system inside the system.....then all you have to do is connect them.......find out...."who the DOTS are"....and "flip the light on"........"BINGO".........the mind is terrible thing to waste, that's for sure. Work smarter...not harder...that's my motto. Hind-sight is 20 / 20...it's a gift, as they say...forensically speaking that is? ( forensic humor ha! )

All I know it.....somethings' wrong with that picture and I'm not waiting to find out what? I've got the "histories" of all the "players" ( enough ) involved and what I see doesn't give me goose bumps in a good way only because their are so many name changes....alias.....changed addresses and moving around all the time. That makes me nervous right there......amongst other things like criminal records for "stealing" and "theft"...plus...I actually discovered "two identity thefts" ( unrelated to me directly but still indirectly connected from my past...and now with......'this other person " and "her associate people".......Looks like "scammers" and "trolls" to me? On paper than is. I am both concerned for D's safety as well as mine but she's a big girl and if this is who she wants to play with...then so be it? Maybe she is "this girl" and "she's the King Pin"? Keiser Soze? LOL I don't think so.....the "person in question" is a totally networker plus...she was the one who was always wanting us to 'spend the night" and I always said NO. And she was "very pushy" about it...."I'll make breakfast"...she'd always say? MMMM???.....for whom? Me or D.......know what I mean?   ( light bulbs, Griswald, BIG PICTURE ......??????? )

Like you mentioned the other day Chevron......"a prolblem cannot be solved on the same level that created it."   I can't remember who said that at the moment...but I'm sure I will when it comes to me? lol Thank you again...for all your help.

Oh....first thing I did......'cut all ties and communications" ...."create "block number lists"........'computer security"...........'smart phone security measures"............" home and car security measures"..........runs scans, close all potential information sharing portals or the all "devices" and make sure there are no "holes in the fences" with all my accounts and things done otherwise. I always closed down the "phone line" that we shared since it was just a means to still connnect us..and when I say "us"...I mean more than D and myself. As soon as I got the "truth" or at least...what I know....what I know is......you can't have a realtionship...weith someone who lies to you..and has a secret "life" that they keep a secret. Nothing sucks worse than that since everything they say is a lie.....to cover for the truth....which is not something they want you to find out or know. It doesn't make me happy.....but it better to know...then to leave this is all "wondering and speculating"....since the "STARS" don't lie.....and Polaris.....never moves in the sky.

PS Basically, a "black out' is in order due to me needing to know more but the cryptic "information" and kind of "reluctance" in saying the wrong thing from her friends I read between the lines as "she's done"...meaning......"done"....in D's case means "done with everything". She is conflict avoidance...it's what she does and there is no "going back" with her" as fare as I can tell with the history I have in front of me and even what I experienced. This "other friend" is the "wing man here"...unless this is all a "group orgy" or something and these are all "swingers" or a "swingers network" or something along those lines.......then "her friend " as I saying this.....is her "wing man". "Wing men".... cover for their "partner in crime". Lie ..."cover"...make up stories ...what ever...to "cover for the friend" or in this case....."friend(s)" who are cheating. Or they are all doing it and it;s BIG....."members only". club ( of some kind?? ) and I'm not a member. Again....I think my "sexual orientation" and "gender" ...disqualify me in this case. LOL I could be wrong....but a coin toss that the odds are really good that what I'm saying is accurate which means there is has been a huge betrayal and ongoing side story here that I have not been privileged to.....nor than I really want to be. Just to "know the truth"...and for them to to "know I know"...is enough for me and to get closure and move on. It's all I want anyway.....closure and the truth. Always better to know....even if you don't always like it. I get.....this as being a legitimate reason to "try and keep that a secret" and to "keep these things hidden". At least that's a reason I can understand...and walk away from and put it to rest. The purpose in doing this.....for gaining compassion..and understanding and resolving my anger ( and most pointly at the "I wasn't born yesterday game" that I was "oh so familar with" that was the BIGGEST RED FLAG OF ALL. For me...when I get those "HITS"....I* almost never forget them. They just sit and wait for an answer...until that time....the are merely..."unknown..as of yet." they don't mean anything...without the context to put them into.    Never. Not "A ONE" of those gets by me since they are "hits' lol.....they leave a mark I remember and are "unexplained".   And I 'NEVER NEVER SAY ANYTHING" or respond to those "HITS'" ( people think I'm crazy or dismiss me anyway usually so why bother and....usually they don't beleive you since you can't back them up with any evidence ) Those are like are my "ACE of HEARTS and Ace of Spades" that I put up my sleeve or into my socks just in case..... and then just go into "high alert, keep scanning for these more and more as....high watch high alert warning"......then walking away for good and and turning my back towards the threat and the whole lot of them.....and never looking back and more importantly...for next time .........AND.... for my own self protection.....I feel safe enough to do that and not have to keep looking back over my shoulder for someone sneaking up from behind. The same kind of people who "sneak" like to come from "behind" or "in the grass" either way. All you can do is be ready for them if they do..and try and be proactive and one step ahead of them if they you think this is where this is going I guess? It might be going the other way too...as another possibility? But that has no consequence or concern for you so it poses no threat what so ever? It's not the one you worry about.....since your best interest and your well being and regard....is not their concern. If all you know or feel is contempt coming from one direction in the past...chances that's what you'll get in the future....and well as no conern or no regard for your best interest? Gotta go with what you know...instead of making things up and filling in the blanks with what you don't know? What you "saw"...is what you're going to get.

I had to come back here because I remembered one of those "moments"....and it did register..and it did "feel really funny" and "something "was not right".   On our 3 visit...to her frineds house.....here friend got totally hammered and was praying to the "Porcilin Gods" with her head at the "alter".....if you get the meaning. She was puking and was in the bathroom and it was really late and I really wanted to leave. And D insisted....that she "stay the night" with her friend ( some 20+ miles away in another town )....because of course.......drinking and puking is a life threatening event....( not going to convince me of that ....I'm still here, and no one "held my hand" through that? lol more than once lol ) So I mean...."what up?"   And the next morning....it's late and I haven't heard from D and it was a work day for her friend ( Super Bowl Sunday ) and now it's Monday and morning is almost gone? And I call and get no answer ...then later D calls back and says her friend won't wake up and is still sleeeping. So D doesn't get home until afternoon except her and her freind went to "late breakfast" together first......and D brought me home some food.   In fact....D is always very good about bringing ,me food when she would go out with "clients". ( as she would say ) Very consistent and possibly.....out of guilt? It was the exact same thing that happened the day I lost it too......there appeared to be "some time table I was not made aware of going on....with an agenda in mind that was not told to me or given to me in advance ".........like "someones waiting".......and "I've got better things to do...than "wait on you do my brakes for me for free"..........I've got places to go and people to meet and one of them is "waiting for me" and......"I've got to run". None of that really mattered at that point.....since it had got to that point and she was gone.......but what she was saying....how she was acting...and what she was "attempting to do" and "what her goals were and what I was hearing"....did not line up with that "at all". The thing is...I know exactly what I was doing and why. And a huge part of that....was going off of things that D "told me" and so very little of it was given....it was "sketchy" at best? But her litttle "poker gives" or what ever they call those things....."nerouvs habits" or "twitches" or "quirks"? I've got plenty of them and more that I'm not even aware of ...but I know D better than anyone.....I know her habits better than she does. She is a predicatable one....in more way than one. Just like me...she has her habits and it is "so unlike her" to change or do diffeerently. She is "in the moment" just like me....so when I see her do one thing.....it's usually the same thing everytime. She is "one dimensional" and kind of moves in a "straight lines" and usually towards "one source" or "goal" at the end of each line.

Her goal or stated purpose:   "NOT WORKING"
when: "AS SOON AS POSSIBLE"

Start date: " ASAP....IF NOT SOONER"
Vehicle: what ever one will get me there the . fastest and and soon as possible and which ever one I can get my trailer hitched to the first. Seems like it.....if I didn't know better? The choice was already made.....even back then......she chose and I lost ALL OF IT WAS A LIE....all of it everything I just told you, which didn't happen they way I just said it which is now even more obvious than before......I just didn't see it at the time necesssarily....but I was already invisible and of no consequence than my "value" I had for them in the future. Why else would you keep it a secret. Every move or change that was made...was based off the exact dates of real estate transactions and address changes including the day she left or shortly after. D's timing......co-ordinated "exactly" with Her "friends" timing and property deals. Real estate seems to be a side thing going on here....and the last thing D said the week she was leaving was......"I'm moving to Beleize" for retirement......which was something we had talked about too. Well.,.....she said it to me again in the "I'm doing it" and was doing her searching.....as she was leaving ..and not "being with me". They thought they were pretty clever and it did fool me then. Fool me twice......I don't think so but I* has my feelings even then that I kept to myself. All the lights has to go on to see this coming......it was not necessarily....what one "might expect?" Kind of the opposite of "occams razor"? Not unheard of....but not "uncommon either, just....but it does explain it nicely....even if there is still a lot to digest. I still could be wrong....but I don't think so.....that's what my gut is telling me and my gut agrees with my head and my eyes and ears on this one.

Knowledge...is power......he who has understanding and knowledge holds the cards and doesn't have to do anything or even leave the farm. Work smarter.....not harder,..,....best advise for all concerned.

Thanks for checking in!

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Tue, 09/05/2017 - 21:14

I'm out of the house. I've stayed with friends since he threatened me. I filed for a temporary restraining order today, and we'll see how it goes.

Thanks so much for checking in. I was going to give an update once I had an idea of whether or not the court will approve all I requested in the TRO and hearing date.

Kitty, glad you're with friends

Submitted by dedelight4 on Thu, 09/07/2017 - 00:24

So glad you took the steps to get to safety. Praying for you and your family so that things stay calm and everything goes well. Good for you.

Thank you. It's been pretty

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Sat, 09/09/2017 - 11:32

Thank you. It's been pretty tough.

Update

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Wed, 09/27/2017 - 04:30

The court granted my restraining order, so it's now locked down as a TRO is exactly what it says it is "temporary". I showed up to court; he didn't. I've seen signs of life with other stuff: activity with one account. But this is something I want him to have anyway, so no issues with him finally moving it to his email. Also, it looks like he's filled out a change of address form. I brought his mail to the hearing but so much for that.

Now I have to figure out a few things, but so far he's stayed away. I hope that continues. For the folks that chimed in with support and advice. Thank you. It helped. It's not over, but I've taken the steps I need to take to protect myself.

Coming up on a year

Submitted by KittyPlatinumPink on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 12:21

I've been thinking about how around last year this time things started getting very unstable in my home. I came here for advice because my ex-boyfriend has ADHD. He also self-medicated with cannabis. What I now know is that the form of cannabis he was using can also tip you into cannabis psychosis. I found this out when I reached out to his family after the restraining order was served, and he was forced out of my home by the local sheriff. I did some digging on the topic and found out there are people actually researching this topic. (Not here in the USA where Federal law forbids it, but they are abroad.) I reached out to someone leading one of those research teams, shared my story, and his reply was "Sadly, a common story." Couple ADHD with cannabis abuse to that point, and it's not pretty. Actually, it can be dangerous.

I've been able to turn things around with him gone. I found some work, which helped me get back on my feet a little bit. I had a chance to take a couple of trips just to go away and walk freely. Now I have to attend to taking the best care of myself that I can. That also means a support group for domestic violence, therapy, being purposeful in building relationships with people, and even staying as open as I can to meeting someone new.

I really want to thank you folks for responding, giving me advice, and a virtual shoulder to lean on.

I specifically want to thank Chevron for stressing that I didn't owe him any candor under the circumstances. That helped me because I feel that I'm someone who is honest and trustworthy, so I had this irrational belief that I needed to be candid. You were right because I could have ended up hurt or worse. Thank you so much. That made a huge difference in how I chose to deal with him.

Log in here

Upcoming seminars & support groups

News

Comments