My wife has done a great job in learning how to stay organized. She works very hard at it and puts a lot of time into maintaining to do lists and calendars. I can't imagine how disorganizaed she would be, and how chaotic things would be, if she didn't work so hard at this. And for all her work, I am very grateful!
I, on the other hand, have no problem remembering things and staying organized. I can remember what I need from the store. I can remember to do the laundry without it being on a to do list every week. I can remember to cook dinner at 6 without it being on my to do list. I can remember to go to choir rehearsal at 7:30 on Wednesday without it being on my calendar (which, by the way, is not electronic). I know I am very lucky that I can stay organized with almost no effort.
My wife wants me to use HER systems of organization, which is to say she is constantly trying to get me to use electronic to do lists and calendars, saying if I only did so, she could just "sync" with me and then she'd never forget anything. When I mention to her that we need something from the store (she does the shopping) she says - if you put it in my electronic shopping list program for me I would remember it. I feel it is too cumbersome to use the electronic systems. I AM willing, however, to send her an email with what we need, which I do. She then adds it herself to her electronic list. Sometimes this works, and sometimes she gets the email but forgets to put it into her electronic list, or she DOES put it into her list and then she forgets to look at it! Or when I tell her I made plans for us on Saturday night, she'll say - put it in my calendar. Which I don't. (I don't use electronic calendars for myself because I don't like them. So I'm not about to use them for someone else!)
When she does forget something I told her about, rather than owning it was something SHE did, she says it's my fault because I "refuse" to put it into her electronic list or calendar directly. I feel she basically saying "If you want me to remember things, you have to use my system. Otherwise, forget it." And it bothers me more that she is blaming ME than that she forgot the item or the date.
I also have an issue the times I ask her - in the moment - to put something I think is important on her list or on her calendar, so she doesn't forget to put it there, and she acuses me of being controlling - "You always want everything done when YOU want it dones." And my answer usually is something like "Because I know if you don't do it now, you'll forget. And then I just end up nagging you until you do it." I've tried the compromise of posting a reminder for her to put something in her clandar, but she often reads the note but doesn't do it. I have taped notes to her coffee mug and it STILL falls through the cracks.
At this point I feel I am stuck with two choices - either enter things directly onto her multiple of lists and calendars (which seems overwhelming to me because her system is so complex and way to detail oriented for me!) or just living with the fact that she's going to forget things. I don't like either of these options, and was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions.
Mom always told me
Submitted by Clarity on
If you want something done, you have to do it yourself. I actually found there was less confrontation that way but, I was a busy girl. Then I realized that I needed to prioritize and pace myself. I'm not sure if it was giving in for the sake of peace because I ended up with high blood pressure. I understand he can't help it and I got past the resentment but I'm not sure if it is the best route. I still have to work around him. It's easier now that the kids are grown... sorry, I'm empathizing more than helping...
All she is asking is for him
Submitted by Normal Mom on
deleted. see reason at this link
My understanding of the OP's question
Submitted by Aspen on
is that she wants him to put it into her electronic tools and possibly in more than one place in a complicated system that he doesn't like/understand/want to be bothered with. Therefore an appropriate compromise isn't to have him do that since it doesn't work for him.
An appropriate compromise, as I understand it, is something that works for both people; and since her tools do not work for him I think it is more than reasonable to expect her to make her own notes.
Maybe that doesn't work in all families, but it does work pretty well in mine. I ask my husband to do something and if he agrees that means he does everything that it takes for him to remember to do it. If he asks me to do something, then I do the same. For me it may or may not involve making any kind of note as I have a good memory, so it would be a waste for him to regularly make notes for me that I may not need.
If I on occasion am unable to make a note myself, I might ask him to do it or to write it up on a post it note, but that is not the norm in our house. I understand that other houses work differently, and I think all that matters is that it work for that couple. I do however think if a person comes here asking for advice because the current system or lack of one doesn't work that they shouldn't be told that they should suck it up and do it that way. I try not to say that to my mate with ADD and he tries not to say it to me.
It is about solving the problem for both people and not saying either one should conform to the other's way of doing it.
I think the point is
Submitted by Ki on
This is the compromise:
If HE wants her to remember something HE is going to have to use her system. She has a disorder that makes her not be ABLE to operate in the world like normal people. IF SHE DIDN'T HAVE THIS DISORDER SHE WOULD MAKE HER OWN NOTES!
Geezus, she is making an effort. She is telling him what is going to help her and he can't do it because its cumbersome and he doesn't want to be bothered with? Thats ridiculous. How about having ADD/ADHD. That's cumbersome.I would hate to see what would happen if this person had some illness and couldn't take care of herself. Her husband would probably let her sit in her own feces because cleaning and feeding an adult that can't help themselves is cumbersome and bothersome
Atleast she is trying, at least she is taking responsibility by expressing her need for help and knowing what works for her.
If my only problem with my ADD husband was putting everything in his complicated list/calendar system for him I'd kiss the ground he walked on while I was putting stuff in his complicated system
That might work for you
Submitted by Aspen on
as a compromise but the OP basically said it didn't for him, and he has every right to feel that way without receiving comments stating that he is so heartless he'd probably leave an invalid in her own feces. What a horrific thing to say!!
By virtue of being married there are certain expectations I have a right to receive from my husband and one is we are both responsible for finding out a way to remember what we need to remember. We certainly support eachother in this endeavor, but that support does not involve any attitude of "If you expect me to remember that I said I'd pick up milk, then you have to tell me in a certain way, record it in a certain way, and remind me in a certain way."
By virtue of him saying "Yes i will pick up milk on my way home" he has taken responsiblity. And no one forced him to say yes in the first place, and when he did, he knew what that entailed. Does he sometimes forget the milk? Sure and I do too at times. We are all a work in progress, but neither of us blames the other when WE forget.
You say "If my only problem with my ADD husband was putting everything in his complicated list/calendar system for him I'd kiss the ground he walked on while I was putting stuff in his complicated system"
And you have every right to feel that way. I don't know what you go through, and you don't know what the OP goes through. This is not his only problem with his ADD mate as he is new here and has already started several threads looking for help and suggestions, and he does not deserve to have his problems minimized in this way.
I have a friend who married at 19 and their *deal* at marriage was that she was to conform in whatever manner needed in order for him to have the most happiness. I don't know many women who'd have made that deal, but 20 years later she is still turning herself inside out trying to keep her bi polar husband happy. I'd never have done it, but that doesn't mean that I don't try to help when she is venting and frustrated with something he's done. I married at 27 and the *deal* we worked out was that we'd each strive to make eachother as happy as possible and work together toward our goals. ADD has been a bit of a hiccup, but we're rolling along happily anyway. On numerous occasions, my friend has mentioned that she'd kiss the ground my husband walks on since at his worst he is probably 1000% better than hers and he is actively working to improve things.
I appreciate those things about him too, but the bar in our marriage is set considerably higher for his behavior than they have set for her husband's behavior. Just because her husband is *worse* doesn't minimize my disappointment when my husband makes the same mistake for the 15th time. And she is a good enough friend that she can sympathize with how hard that can be at times without giving me grief about how much better I have it than she does. She also is able to help me see when I am making a mountain out of a molehill. That is support and we all need it.
Ki
Submitted by Steph on
Ki, you wrote : If HE wants her to remember something HE is going to have to use her system. She has a disorder that makes her not be ABLE to operate in the world like normal people. IF SHE DIDN'T HAVE THIS DISORDER SHE WOULD MAKE HER OWN NOTES!
Last time I checked, one of the symptoms of ADD was NOT an inability to make notes. Seriously, when someone needs to remember something, its their responsibility to write it down in whatever fashion they are comfortable using. My ADHD husband would tell me that he had a doctor's appointment on such and such date at such and such time to which I started replying "write it down" (on our family calendar or wherever he chose) * We discussed this strategy ahead of time and agreed to it with assistance from his coach. After not doing it himself several times and still expecting me to write it down for him, AND after many missed appointments he finally got the picture that its HIS responsibility. I write down what I need to remember, he should write down what he needs to remember. Enabling isn't teaching him anything. What will he do when I am no longer around? He won't have any strategies in place to help make life easier for himself. Its not about ADD world vs non ADD world. Its about doing what you can to perform to the best of your ability. God only helps those that help themselves!
Exactly!
Submitted by phoenixgirl78 on
I like to remember that quip about how you know it's a good compromise when neither party walks away completely happy. Though, in the case of a ADD and a non-ADD spouse, both people walk away a lot happier because there is some sort of game plan. That means less yelling/getting yelled at.
It sounds like she needs to get something akin to a PDA (we're saving up for an iTouch for Tim, it has most of the functions of an iPhone but without the monthly fee for a cell plan) and chain it to her. It's hard because ADDers can be so forgetful that she may lose it. But if it's her lifeblood, she may be able to keep it. My husband never loses his wallet. But he'll set his water bottle down and walk away.
If the PDA thing doesn't work, maybe she can try Outlook, since, as I recall, you can update things on that from anywhere. So she can make a note at home and still access it on the calendar at work. And, if she has a smart phone or something with internet access, she can check it when she's out and about, too.
The big thing is helping her remember to write it down while she's thinking about it. There are times that Tim and I have to suspend conversations while he makes a note. Or I have to let him interrupt me because otherwise he'll forget. She's not right to expect him to come all the way over to his side. And he's certainly not asking her to come over to hers. He's asking her to respect that he has a different way of dealing with things and can't be responsible for all her needs. So a compromise needs to be found. He can help her remember to put things in her PDA/Outlook. But she can't ask him to be a second memory for him. It won't work and they both end up frustrated and angry.
case by case, break even
Submitted by arwen on
kad, in general I agree with Aspen's posts on this thread. But here's another way to think about it, maybe.
my ADD spouse also uses a combination of electronics to help him keep track of his responsibilities and commitments. I use some electronics, but not the same stuff he uses, and we don't "synch" them up. He prefers his and I prefer mine. I also use plain old pencil and paper because in some situations that works better for me (my memory of the task is more strongly stored in my mind when I write with a pencil than when I type -- I don't know why, I just know that this is how I work!).
Most of the time my spouse is willing to put items in his electronic devices himself. But it depends on what it is. Sometimes he asks me to email him. Sometimes we instant message information. Basically, we don't have any strict rules based on the concept of whose responsibility is what. Our approach is pragmatic -- which approach is most likely to get the job done for any given item, and how much work is it for each of us?
For example, if I have a grocery list of more than just a couple of items for him to pick up on his way home from work, it's silly from a time perspective to ask him to enter it item by item as I dictate it to him -- and he's likely to miss something that way, too. Far better for us if I email him and he downloads the list to his PDA. But if it's only two or three things, he doesn't feel it's time-consuming or a big deal for him to take it down as I talk, it's likely to be done right and it's a lot easier for me.
My point is, instead of looking at the question of whether you and your wife handle it one way or another based on who "should" do what, maybe it would be worthwhile to look at it as a kind of multi-factor "break-even" analysis -- your effort, her effort, the priority of the task, and the likelihood of it getting done appropriately. If you are working from the basis that you're already doing your best (if you really truly think you are) and that she's doing her best (if she really truly thinks she is), then it seems to me that the only way to achieve better results is to work cooperatively to define optimizing compromises.
Also, my husband and I schedule three formal, regular, meetings every week, to discuss our schedules and tasks (as well as other things). This is how we achieve a "synch up". For us, it works hugely better than leaving each other notes. For more information about how this works, please see my blog post http://www.adhdmarriage.com/content/improving-communications-through-for...
Good luck!
Thanks, Arwen. I came on
Submitted by Looking4Help on
Thanks, Arwen. I came on this morning and was surprised to see so many posts! I want to say a couple things in reply to everyone.
First - I do not ever demand my wife do things MY way (just like I do not ask my staff to do things my way), and I ask the same of her.
Second, I realize there are some things I can do to help her remember things. And I have been working on it.
First we tried my leaving post-it notes for her, because my telling her verbally had the effect of her feeling like I was interrupting whatever she was presently doing. And we agreed that rather than my nagging her until she wrote things down, I would write them down on a post-its and she would take responsibility for reading them and recording the content when the time was right for HER. It would also allow me to "let go of it" so to speak, and not have to keep remembering myself to remind her until she wrote it down. But as I said - she'd forget to put the content of the notes into her system and she'd end up forgetting. Then when she'd email me or call me at work to remind her what I had written, I couldn't remember because when I "let go" of something, I truly let go of it! I only remember what I need to remember (and so my mind is not cluttered.) I know that is a gift of being non-ADD, and I appreciate it. So, what was happening, was that I was having to remember all the things I agreed to do, AND namy of the things she agreed to do. That didn't work for me.
Next, I started writing things down and then sending them to her by email, thinking the email would serve as a reminder AND she could download things directly from the email into whatever system she uses, or else she could just pull up the email on her iPhone when she was at the grocery store. But she often forgets to pull up the email. However, this system is working better than my just leaving notes for her. I have also learned that I can not put multiple things into one email, as she often doesn't read the entire email. So, I'll send multiple emails - one per topic. Like one to ask her to put something into her calendar, one to give her the shopping list, and one to tell her I'm going to be home an hour late, etc. even though this is cumbersome to me, because my Internet connection at work is slow and unreliable. It is a concession I am willing to make because it works better for HER.
I drwa the line, however, in learning all her programs - yes - she has an "app" for everything, and she keeps changing them because she constantly finds "new and improved" ways of doing things. I just can't keep up! I did try once to put something into her calendar to remind her to leave work on time - it pops up at 5 Monday - Friday - "Drive Home" - but she simply ignores the reminder. But that's neither here nor there. The point is, her system really is too complex for me. Some things have to go into one app, some into another, some into more than one, etc. And they need to go in in just the right way - etc. My goal in life is to simplify - and yes, I still use a handwritten calendar book to write down the few things I need to write down in order to remember them. Anything else is just overkill for me.
I like the suggestion above (I forgot who made it) that both my wife and I, when we agree to do something, need to take full responsibility for doing it, including whatever it takes to remember to do it. I understand that my wife needs to write something down - I can't tell you how many times she stops in the middle of a conversation to do just that - even when it is totally disruptive to the conversation. I have learned to live with that, only asking that before she do so, she take a second to say something like "I'm gonna write that down, OK?" Which she often forgets to do, but I know she is trying. When she does forget, sometimes I remind her, and sometimes I let it go. And I am trying very hard NOT to take things personally, though I must admit, it feels very disrepectful to me when my wife disappears from a room or leaves the house without a word, as if I'm not even there. (When I point it out when she does that, her response usually is something like "I assumed you knew I was going to the bank" to which I say something like "How would I have known that?")
Scheduling times to "sync" also sounds like a good idea. I could also at that time give her the list of what we need from the store so she can put it in her program.
The bottom line here, fo me, is that I am feeling disrepected when she blames ME for whe SHE forgets something because I didn't write it down for her.
Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to write. Even Normal Mom - while I disagree with the concessions you are asking me to make, I appreciate what you have to say, as it gives me some insight into what my wife might be thinking. Lucky for me, I can talk with her about these things. What I have read here will help the next time we have a conversation about this. (Which, by the way, we are having more frequently, at shceduled times when we are NOT in the middle of a disagreement. That sure has resulted in less angry outbusrts!)
Finally, I'd like to point out that we are a same-sex couple. I wasn't going to say anything, because it doesn't really matter here, but I can't keep hearing myself referred to as the husband. :-)
sorry about assuming...
Submitted by phoenixgirl78 on
That you were the husband. It's so hard to tell gender on the Internet at times. I apologize for the pronoun mix-up. I still think, though, that you are being very reasonable. The trick is to make her understand that. Tell her that, just like she has problems holding things in her memory, you do too. The way you cope is to let go of things that are already written down. Her way is to write things down but then she still needs copies. (The more I think about it, the more Outlook, potentially combined with a smart phone/PDA, is going to keep you both sane.) So she can't ask you to keep extra stuff in your memory, as it would ask too much of your brain. The same way you don't expect her to remember something she hasn't written down.
I think they key, here, is to find a way that she can write something down and have access to it all the time. Hence my suggestions above. Like i said, we're saving up (via Swagbucks and MyPoints, hooray for rewards programs) for an iPod Touch. There is a very usable calendar, he can make notes. He can download free apps like "To-do" lists and even expense trackers, which would be wonderful if he can make it a routine. Either way, he'll have most of the necessary functions of a PDA/smart phone -- he doesn't need to access office documents or anything -- without the cost of a monthly cell/data usage plan. Because, like you, I have a hard time being the memory for two people. I'm managing it for now, but he understands that it's a strain and wants to find a solution that will help me get rid of some responsibility.
"Also, I think it's important
Submitted by Normal Mom on
deleted. see reason at this link.
My situation is totally different!!!
Submitted by newstart on
My husband expected me to make a list for what he needed to do. Not only that, he would not read the list if it was 2 feet from him! He expected me to keep an eye on when it looked like he was done, then stop what I was doing and tell him what was next on his list! "I do not like looking at lists and doing work" - So not only did he not make a list, he would not read the list and do what was on his list; he expected me to read it to him and then he would decide at that point if he felt like doing that. If not, he would walk out and the rest of the list was left for me to do!!!! He did this at work and at home. He refused to keep a manual dairy, would not use his smartphone to keep a list, would forget or walk in late for business appointments because I did not remind him on time, etc. etc. I had to estimate when he would get to the grocery and call him up with the list - he would not call when he got there! If I did not call at the right time, he would buy whatever he felt like, whatever was on sale and bring it home. "Use it for something" was his answer if I told him that I never used what he bought!
It was very difficult to deal with it. If he forgot it was his ADD or he said, "I just forgot"; but if I forgot to remind him it was because I was vindictive and intentionally did not tell him because I always remember everybody's list (we have 2 sons)! I wanted him to look bad!
He walked out a year and a half ago because "I was impossible to deal with" and is now wanting a divorce. So, I am just waiting for the papers to arrive.
It all blew up when I drove the kids 1200 miles round trip to see him when he had laser surgery on his eye. I was just going in for 5 minutes to see how he was and I was not "given permission" to enter the house?! He lives with his brother and I had not asked "their permission" and had no right to walk in uninvited. My husband has been living there for over a year and he had no right to invite his kids - they had "visiting hours" and were allowed to visit him for a total of 3 hours that weekend. I waited on top fof the driveway for the kids to come out, went out for dinner and stayed in a hotel. We were going to stay in a hotel from the beginning (had booked it and all and he knew about our trip before I booked the hotel and he did not say don't come at that time) but the kids were not even allowed to spend more time with them. After our return I was told that I was wrong in taking the kids to visit him or think that I could go into the house for 5 minutes! He and his family were totally right in kicking me out and the kids having "visiting hours". The kids did not expect or get anything to eat after driving 6 hours that morning when we drove straight to their house!
There are all kinds of people - can you really blame everything on ADD? This is an attitude - do you think it is the result of ADD and a decade of depression? His brother and family don't have ADD! According to him, he cannot continue a marriage where there is no respect and trust (even in a situation like our trip). My getting upset shows that I do not trust and respect his word, i should agree that I was wrong to have driven there and should have expected the treatment I got, and apologise and ask for forgiveness?! He needs complete trust and respect, friendship and admiration for him to continue the marriage and i do not admire him as much as he expects me to. I do not trust and respect him as much as he expects me to. We have gone through 2 bankruptcies, several failed businesses, several foreclosures that he borrowed more money to get out of,.... And I am wrong in not trusting him, I do not have implicit trust and respect for him and that is not acceptable!
Your husband sounds like my ex
Submitted by Sueann on
I wanted to have natural childbirth. We could not go to classes because my husband worked second shift and that's when all the classes were. So I got books, and he told me to read them and just tell him what he needed to know. Does a coach expect his players to teach him the game!!?
This guy does not have ADD. (He's my ex, thank God). Yes, I think your husband is just a jerk, like my first husband. ADD may be an excuse to be a jerk, but it's not a reason.
Your kids are the nephews of the brother your husband lives with. Geez, they should at least have given them breakfast.
That's not ADD
Submitted by phoenixgirl78 on
That's being-a-jerk-itis. It's a very nasty condition that only seems to get worse with time. ADD may be what he puts the blame on. But there are plenty of people out there who won't lift a finger unnecessarily and perfectly happy to let their spouses deal with everything.
Of course, I have a temper, but you can just bet that he would have heard from me if he walked out in the middle of things, said he didn't feel like a chore and then expected me to get everything done. Or blamed me for not reminding him to use the stuff that reminds him. He'd have gotten an earful.
Seriously, though, there are so many people -- mainly guys, in my experience, but some women -- who feel utterly entitled to everything. Respect? If they don't get it instantly (without having earned it) then everyone is terrible or jealous or something. Others play that fun power game of seeing how much you'll do before you crack. You don't have to have ADD to be an entitled, lazy, ass of a person.
My father most certainly did not have ADD, but he was more than happy to make everything be on his terms. He constantly complained that no one respected him, everyone was out to make him look bad, etc etc. And he constantly played weird little power games with my mom. Like, when he moved to Chicago to work at the Tribune, she was still up in Anchorage, trying to sell their home. He didn't send her any paychecks. He said, and this is apparently a direct quote, "I want to see how well you do." So while he was routinely getting $8 martinis, she was paying the credit card bills and the mortgage. Yeah. I think this was, in part, his weird way of ensuring she couldn't go out and meet anyone else. Or it was just part of what my mom's therapist diagnosed as malignant narcissism.
Tim may drive me crazy now and again -- doesn't notice when chores need doing, doesn't remember things that i need him to remember -- but he will always help out whenever he perceives a need. (The problem lately is that he doesn't perceive that the best way to help me right now is to get himself a job.) He runs errands for me, he will go get food -- from grocery store runs to takeout -- and pretty much anything else i need done. It's just sometimes infuriating to have to ask.
Point being, though, he cares about my well-being. He wants me to be happy, and he wants to be a good husband. And if he ever pulled half of the stuff that I've heard about on here, he also knows he'd be in front of a slamming door with a suitcase in his hand. (I've been a doormat before, and I've vowed not to let it happen again.) So maybe that keeps him in line. I dunno.
What I do know is that abusers are very charming when they want to be. And make no mistake, the behavior you're describing is plenty abusive, in the very least emotionally. The reason people stay with abusers changes -- love, then kids so you want to keep the family together, and always fear and guilt -- but one of the main tricks of the trade is that abusive folks and others who are just utter users of people... They're just nice enough to get you comfortable. Then they wait for you to get in a place where they know it will be hard to change. (It often helps that they isolate you from friends and family.) And then they start showing their true nature. And if you get the wherewithal to leave? They switch to charming again and convince you they'll change. But, until you cry enough is enough, they will do everything and anything they think they can get away with.
So I'm glad that you got out of that marriage, even if it wasn't the way you wanted. I know it can be infuriating to know that the idiot who mistreated you is spreading falsehoods about how you mistreated him. But realize that he is such a pathetic, unlikeable creature that, in the long run, it doesn't matter. One day you may even be able to laugh about it, out of pity. Or moral superiority. Either way, you'll get to laugh.
I guess I'm just wanting to point out that people rely on all sorts of excuses as to why they behave however they want. Be it ADD, depression, physical injuries or problems (a friend of a friend's husband hurt his back too badly to work and didn't help out around the house... but still demanded sex every night). In the end, it just comes down to using an excuse rather than working to overcome an inconvenient personal trait. I was recently diagnosed bipolar II and I hate how I've treated people in the past when I'm on down cycle. But I'm not going to use my diagnosis to mistreat my husband. I take it as a way to better understand my actions and emotions so that I can better deal with my problems and not take them out on other people. Any other reaction -- beyond a brief period of confusion and depression about such diagnoses -- is completely unacceptable and shows no respect for the other people in their lives.
According to him, he has no problem!
Submitted by newstart on
According to him, he is perfectly fine and has no problem! He has been diagnosed as severe ADD but will not take meds, go for counselling - he made my going to one a requirement for further talk 6 months ago! And I am so thankful that he did as it gave me a chance to get a back bone and become independent. I cleared up all the unpaid bills at work, put my kid through Ivy League school last year, I sold our house and worked very hard (?!) to improve my credit after my bankruptcy. I could never have done it without some wonderful, very helpful friends. At least now, we have no financial assets in both our names - no house, bank accounts, credit cards, everything is separate. Since I have helped him in his business for the last 23 years of our marriage, I have no work experience and have to look for a job! Not easy in this economy.
You are right. He appears so kind, loving and caring to others. He is extremely charming when he chooses to where it makes me appear the negative one in the marriage. "He never has anything negative to say about you, and always shows you in a positive light" - is the comment I hear often from friends. We used to have a restaurant and when it got very busy and the kitchen was running a bit late, he would come to the kitchen door and ask what was the delay and if he could help in any way. When I asked him to do something to help get the food out, his answer would be that he does not want to do that and walk out! I was supposed to be grateful when he helped the way he wanted to and should appreciate him and be thankful for it, I was not supposed to want and expect him to help the way I needed it! According to him, "Helping is when he helps me in whichever way he wants to help - you cannot tell someone how to help you?! You have to be grateful for what they feel like doing whether you need the help in that way or not", but I had to help him where he needed help so that I "complement" his weaknesses! Both ways had to be to his way of doing things. This has gone on for 23 years and I am now not willing to do that anymore, hence I am not cooperating and putting my foot down and stopping him and hurting the family, financially and otherwise!!!!
He has convinced people to the extent that I have been told recently that I should be magnanimous and forgive him for all the wrong I perceive he has done, and ask him for forgiveness! In this year and a half that we have separated, I see the marriage and wonder how did I ever put with this?! How did I get myself in such a situation and allow myself to be maniputed so much that I have 0 to start with.
Double standards
Submitted by Clarity on
That's something I've dealt with for years. His motive is not to manipulate me, his motive is selfish, he just wants to get his own way. He wants his way no matter how much sense it doesn't make. He can't plan or come up with a strategy for anything, it's about obtaining what he feels is best for him in the moment without any regard for my wishes or even understanding the consequences of getting his way. In the next moment, when things go wrong, it's always someone else's fault. It's about what benefits him and what makes him look good. Talk about spin! If you're not on to that, you just believe him! When I figured it out, I became a bad person. Mean, vengeful, demanding, too sensitive, the ice queen, whatever the moment called for...
My ADDman has always projected an image of the calm, sensible, charming man everyone loves. Meanwhile I'm wondering what's going on? The man I met is not the one I'm living with now and he's not the guy everyone else sees... with me he's irritable, illogical and demanding but that's my fault of course...