Forum topic: Scrutiny

Of course I had to look up where this gatekeeping comes from and to no surprise ....it's shadow behavior ( Jungian ).

I can take each person I mentioned and go....yep. That's it. Including my X.

Using the Star Wars scene ...where Luke Skywaljwr had to go into the cave to face the dark side of the force..... then, in the moment when he see's Darth Vader ( his father ) and quickly dispatches him by cutting off his head.... 

..only to see the head inside the helmet is him.

I think this is the perfect metaphor. None of the people I mentioned have gone into the cave to face their dark side. They disowned it long ago....but it's still there none the less. 

I only hope for my sisters and my X's sake...they do it while they still have the chance. It's too late for my mom and grandmother, but they still have the chance .

when my X was standing there in front of me...downloading everything that was wrong with me saying  "you bring out the worst in me ! " ( like hitting me for example ) ...

I laughed and basically said "uh...not so much. You're "worst", was already there....I'm not responsible for "bringing it out" of you! 

I may be the catalyst  ( with little doubt ) but I didn't create it ....I'm not that talented!!

and I agree. Not only agree,but have come to similar conclusions on my own. Even, within what you mentioned about the "reason" to get into a romantic relationship initially was to have childeren. Objectively speaking, to have childeren,you MUST have a functioning male specimen to serve as part of that equation ie; through sex. Right? That's really not any great revelation even for me to see. It's also not any great revelation to understand why that is ( in terms of women...to further the species ). It's inherent as part of your biological programming on an instinctual level. Not really that hard to understand. It's instinctual....therefore, your driven to do it. ( not just the sexual act ...per se... as its only the final "act" in this relationship )...to make babies. An objectively speaking, men are biologically programmed to want to have sex ...period. lol But seriously, the other half of that equation is exactly the same thing. Men's "part", or "role" in this bit of drama is to provide the missing part ....to make babies. This is pretty basic...in fact...base level understanding. You know what else is "base level " understanding? Praying Mantisis. I mean, how efficient? The male does his part, and the female eats him when they're finished. No waste of resources there...get er done and that's the end! No need for the male anymore, that makes perfect sense for an insect...but we're not insects! But we are animals ( mamals ) and behave like one in many ways. I think a lot of people miss this part...I for one don't, so I see this possibly differently, in fact...it's very timely you brought this up because I just experienced this...in real time, just the other evening. True stuff. If I'm ly'in, I'm dy'in. A woman (back then a girl) I knew in High School,and now, on social media, contacted me for help with this giant RV project she has and was wanting me to drive all the way back to my old home to help with this project. Not even cost effective but I'm helping where I can from remote, once I explained what she's up against. AND ...she bought her RV for the same reason I'm doing what I'm doing...to get away for some peace and solitude and hang out by herself with her dog. So we're basically on the same page..I really didn't need to explain why I'm doing what I'm doing to her. She also doesn't have childeren so she's free to do what she wants unconstrained. She doesn't personally know my X as I know her, but my X became her social media friend so she knows "our story" too. I didn't really have to say anything other than we broke up, and she already had her own opinion about that which she shared with me openly. As she said..."well, that's just how we women are. I've dumped plenty of men, in fact, I always do the dumping. One guy I was with for 8 years and just woke up one morning and stared at him. He said "why are you staring at me?" She said " I was just wondering how long your legs would keep kicking if I smothered you in your sleep." I think my response was something like "Jesus!" Or along those lines. She finished by saying "yeah, I just packed my things and left that day. No warning and anything." And in her way...that did make me feel at least some vindication for how I felt because that was pretty close to what she said, but made it clear, she'd been unhappy for a while which, also fit my experience. But, she's also been unmarried her entire life and has Bi-polar so that could be part of the reason for why that is for her. IDK. Just speculating. But her, kind of, matter of fact way of saying it...which was extremely open and candid was pretty convincing that this is exactly how she felt about that guy. Like she wanted to kill him for no specific reason exactly ...only...I wasn't happy. Kinda like..."I'm done with you..you've served my purpose ...goodbye." lol I immediately went to the Praying Mantis example...she ( my friend ) was just so efficient and left without warning that same day with seemingly no worries what so ever. She was even surprised that my X and I are still communicating and on friendly terms. She said, once she's done she won't even talk to her past boyfriends anymore...just like. Praying Mantis style. Unashamedly so...no looking back. But finished again by saying " that's just how us women are." And the first and last thing she said was based on her thinking that this is how " all women are". This has been stewing in my head ever since she said that. "ALL WOMEN" ...want to kill their partners, then just up and leave without warning and never want to talk to them ever again ? I don't think so. Just the same as "all men will have sex with any woman who wants to and can't keep that thing in their pants" because their biological programming tells you its "time for sex". I mean really, it's not exactly the only reason to be with someone...in fact...I chose to override that "urge" ..and was still willing to be with my X anyway? If not, I would have been gone the second she said no...using that as my reason. My reason was companionship. It wasn't to make babies as neither one of us can? I'm just not so sure my friend was right, in fact, I don't think she was ...as in "that's just how women are."

to say a couple   anyway, but to be more concise in what I was saying is simply.. both men and woman are driven to do what ever they do by things inside them moving them in any particular direction. It's not a "men" or "women" thing....just different reasons to do what they do which are not exactly the same.  Sometimes they are for the same reason...sometimes not. I wanted companionship....my X wanted something different or better...her version of that was, was different than mine.

I came back to include something I already know but haven't exactly said. I've known it for a very  long time but just don't mention it outright. I know what my problem is. That's the problem. And there's very little I can do about it. That's why it's a problem. 

This isn't RSD. This is nervous system level..."pre-emotional"  alarm going off. It's just a signal or...like an alarm it says "something bad is coming".  And I can't turn it off...until the "danger" is past. So this becomes more of a safety issue and the fact that my wiring is ultra high tuned to picking things up anyway...I cannot be around contempt. The alarm goes off and I can't make it stop. It's like background noise or a program running in the background all the time that just drains your circuitry. 

That's why my friends comment caused me to react as I did. I could even hear it in voice and her tone. With disgust. I pick these up. It just happens.  I have no control of it. But it affects me greatly.  I can't be around it...I can't ask people "would you please mind, no contempt, thank you." That really doesn't work, so I'm kinda screwed. I just can't be around contempt.  Period. Not within my personal relationships that is and that's a completely ridiculous premise??? That would be utter none sense to require that up front? It's a ridiculous notion in the first place, everybody has contempt at sometime or another ...I'm just attuned better than most ( I guess ? ) in picking it up. An an early defense mechanism but it's just such an annoyance and irritating thing to be constantly trying to deal with. 

And I'm only this way in a close personal relationship where deep feelings are on the line so...it happens....I'm aware of it...but it's still a lot of work and energy, having that running in the background.  

And I could talk about this all day but it won't change that fact. There's guarantee that contempt won't come into play...and it takes so much effort in processing it all. In the ideal world...there would be no contempt and I'd be fine with that. 

And that exactly why....I not willing to take that chance. It's not even realistic to think that's even possible? At least in my experience. 

.. since contempt is featured prominently in Melissa's book along with the work of John Gottman on this topic, I figured sharing my experience with contempt ( instead of what I intellectually know ) might help others understand better how this works with me, just to show one example. Both the good and the bad. 

This is also where the RSD thing can get confused of mixed up. It certainly is still confusing to me.

I'm using "nervous system" instead of intuition. It's not magic, I don't have special powers, it's just nuts and bolts wiring, and what my wiring is tuned to pick up. In this case ...it's contempt.

What I understand about RSD is from my own experience with it. I've identified moments in my life when it's happened, and it's definitely and overwhelming flood or emotions you have no control over. It's can be "percieved" as rejection, even when it's not. It's taking something very personally when it could be, not personal at all.  That's NOT what's happening with me and contempt. 

My radar is definitely picking up something, (not just perceived as ...)  and it's actually very accurate. It's even scary accurate sometimes.  That the good, or it can be, but it's really just a neutral signal. It's not emotional...it's just signal.  But there's a defining moment between picking it up....and the "alarm" going off. It remains a neutral signal until a certain set of of things happen. This where my radar and alarm are BOTH working extremely well...in this one particular slice of the pie. It's where I do this without thinking....it just happens, I don't have to try. The only thing I have to do is decide what to do about it. The alarm is doing its job extremely well.

So the way it works is. I start picking up very subtle nuanced bits of contempt leaking out of a person. I guarantee most times, they aren't even aware of it. But I am, because I pick it up. That's what I do. I notice . Noticing isn't an alarm. I just "take note"...and store that for later on. I don't react of overreact...I don't DO anything. I just notice even in my close relationships... thinking about my X as a case in point and how this played out. I noted the contempt leaking out of her....before there was any real signs of a problem.  

But as time goes on, it leaks out more often and in greater numbers. If you plotted the numbers on a chart with "dots" laid out on paper ...you could start drawing lines between the dots and now a pattern begin to take shape. It's no longer just a couple of dots in random sequence, the shape becomes a structure and that structure becomes building...and that building becomes an attitude or "fixture" now as part of daily life with this person. And that building is now called "contempt"....and it doesn't go away when that person's building is "built out of" contempt or the entire structure collapses.

What I do REALLY well...is see patterns, and build structures. I do this without thinking. It just happens. So everything I just described is not a thinking cognitive process. My nervous system picks it up...and also notices the escalation. My brain automatically tracks or "plots the dots" on my awareness map and now....I don't need to see the rest of the picture to know where it's going.  I can see the trajectory clearly....and where the lines are heading before I ( the lines )  get there...to see where they're going to intersect. 

But to be clear...emotions have nothing to do with this process. It's neutral. There's no flooding or overreacting....I don't react.  I just pay attention.

So for a quite some time, I may notice contempt and chalk it up to everyday, garden variety contempt everyone shows on occasion including me. That's not where the alarm gets trigger. The alarm gets triggered when I see the structure or building...when the pattern keeps repeating enough times to establish a building or structure of repeated experiences of contempt now leaking out chronically aimed at me...that's when the alarm goes off because the trajectory tells me where this is going before I get there.  And ...it's very accurate in doing this.  It's less a perceived insult ...and more a direct experience or repeated insults over time that I'm fully aware of. Both in my experience and noticing the contempt leaking out in a pattern that I can't, not see.

Like they say...one time is an anomaly,  two times is coincidence but three times is a pattern.   Once you plot three points on a map,  you now have a direction to know what your heading is.

The thing is....I don't have to draw it on a map. I do this in my head automatically without thinking.  Everything I just said is just the anatomy of my thinking process and how this all works ( for me ). But this is the part I don't have to try to do. In fact....I can't not do it !! Lol 

But in essence, why would I want to stop ? It's actually pretty handy at times so I have no functional reason to stop my nervous system from doing it but.....

What comes next IS the real question. What I do with this knowledge or "knowing" when I know what it is is where the emotions and heartache begin.   I don't have any control of another person, asking them "would you mind not having contempt, thank you" clearly is on the Monty Python Level of silliness and absurdity so that doesn't work. Telling them to stop also doesn't work especially when they aren't even aware their doing it !!  Yet...they are doing it...even IF they don't think they are.

This is where I chime in and say things like "I know what you're doing and I don't like it."

That also doesn't work. I've tried everything you could try, and nothing really changes when someone has taken a contemptuous "stance"...or ...the structure to their building. It has a shape I recognize from the past...and the past says...."something bad is coming ".

And I remember clearly, in my last relationship to my X, when the "shift " happened. When the shift happened and the alarm went off...I actually said something but not before I'd given it a great deal of thought in how I was going to approach my X. 

 I don't remember the words exactly but the message was pretty clear... which I do remember it being my first attempt to say...."what you're doing is hurting me" .

What I got back in that moment was "you're too sensitive " dismissal and more contempt.

And in the moment, I did do something I regret but I was extremely hurt ...not by the act...but her unwillingness to repair. I threw my glasses to the ground breaking them on the floor it utter exasperation. I did it because I knew where this was headed if repair was not going to be part of being in a relationship.  If denying ( or dismissing my feelings ) and calling me too sensitive is how this was going to work ...topped off by more contempt ..on top of contempt. 

 That building has a structure and I know what that structure looks like. I know the shape on the map ( the dots ) and where it's going. 

So basically, I know what contempt looks like. I pick up the tiniest pieces and plot them on a map. I recognize the "point " or place where the "shift" occures and my alarm goes off....  when it stops being random and starts to forms a picture .. and I do this very well and accurately. I do it without thinking.   

And the only thing left to do is decide what to next. I can't live around contempt. I can't control anyone else so ...here I am. By myself. It's the only logical solution left available. I see contempt  everywhere, I can't not see it. 

I will say again. None is this magic. I can't see into the future but the past is still the best predictor I've got. 

Also, my moment of regret only happened that one time even tho....throwing things to the ground in exasperation has always been my pattern. It's also what I've done in the past. 

But this time...I only did it once...and learned from my mistake.  All ( or nearly all ) future battles against contempt I walked away ...and said nothing after that.  That was the correct thing to do in my mind. It served not to escalate any further which was the only power I had left available to me. I do not regret doing that under the circumstances. It was the best option available.  

Content Warning: Physical violence

"It probably leaks out as a kind of desperation when all resources are depleted."

Yes Swedish, that almost goes without saying. Contempt doesn't live in a vacuum. It doesn't just appear out of no where for no reason...it has to come from somewhere.

And this is the point I was mentioning about "going in the cave" to face your dark side. This is where going to, and staying in therapy long enough to really explore where it comes from ...inside me, became the beginning of the end of contempt that I owned. And I rembered that moment of truth too. 

That waa the moment when the "child abused" me ( yes I was a victim of child abuse ) had to face the fact that,  as my therapist said to me on a number of occasions "the abused takes a piece of the abuser with them". Ouch. It took a while to sink in, but on reflection, all that contempt from my past ( hugely from my father in this case ) had found its way inside me and there was no denying it. I was no angry at him, especially since he died before I realized what he'd done...I could have just spit nails every time I thought about how much contempt I had to eat, how many times I was trying so hard to just get him to like me ( prove myself worthy ) of just simply recieving kindness, instead,  of him being such a jerk and showing me contempt, just by my mere presence....I really felt like he skated, and got away with treating me terribly at times. 

Not ALL the time, but enough, for me to label him "asshole".  And now ...he's dead, and I don't have the chance to get back at him...and even the score.  I was so full of contempt at him...just the thought of him would send me thru the roof!!  And much of this abuse happened when I was a little kid. He was a gigantic monster towering over me coming at me in rage for some misdeed or wrong doing. Hitting me, kicking me...trying to "punish the behavior out of me" which of course, totally didn't work. It didn't work because I have ADHD but no one knew that including him. He was as ignorant as I was, but that still doesn't absolve him for being an asshole ...which he was, but not JUST to me. He kind of spread his assholeness around to other people so, that's just who he was. You can still bond and have strong feelings and attachment to someone who abuses you while accepting ...they're just an asshole. It not about you. That was his personal problem. I've long since forgave him and put that contempt to rest. It's corrosive to carry around with you, and it served me in no way to continue to hold onto it. 

And my therapist was absolutely right when  he said the abused takes a piece of the abuser with them. What I took from my dad was the contempt for him !  And it leaked out of me long after he was gone. That, not getting the chance to "get even" just festered in me like a bacteria...it just ate away at me until I finally found a way to let it go. I did NOT want to be like my father...I definitely did not want to do ...what he did to me. That was my challenge or problem....to get rid my  contempt I  was carrying around inside me.

That's why I wasn't focused on ADHD with my therapist.  I needed to address that part, before I moved on to anything else and for me, that's exactly what I needed and it worked after a lot of work and effort over time. Kind of like swimming ...to use that template. 

So coming full circle to my X. My X is nothing like my dad but, she sure has a number of his "asshole" qualities.  Enough to call her abusive. She has a lot of contempt stored inside her and it comes out in very similar ways.  She hit and kicked me for crying out loud ! She'd criticized and belittled me and put me down constantly including gaslighting which I was very familiar with.  Familiar enough that I regonized it immediately and would call her out on it in the moment. Right then...."You're gaslighting me". She hated that...but I don't regret that either.  It may not have been very subtle...but it was effective in stopping it in its tracks. This is also part of my special talent...calling things out and pissing people off. Lol  It is what I do...I have a long history there. If anything...I invite contempt my way, which is why now silence is a better option and walking away. Part of walking away is so I don't say the wrong thing !! 

But here's the reality of my situation now,  as it was with my X only recently.  Forget my X is a woman...and see her as a person with ADHD. I can only imagine what her childhood was like...but I'll bet it wasn't all that different than mine.  She was also the youngest like me...so she had that same or similar  experience I did...and a lot of contempt and anger on both sides. As her sister said once " there was a lot of yelling" as she recalled. I'll bet there was...I can only imagine. She went through her own version of my experience which made us quite the same in many ways. I think we had a lot in common and we were more than just a little compatible which we very much were. Compatibility wasn't really the problem as we were very suited to one another in a host of ways . Here problem as I see it...is she hasn't gone into the cave to confront her dark side.

 She was most definitely abused as a child...but she took it with her, and is denial of that part in her. No one knew she had ADHD either ...neither her parents or her, so it was the same for her...not different. Ignorance doesn't undo what was done.  As I learned from going into the cave....the only person who can do that is you. No one said it would be easy because it's not.  But as they say....a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.  In this case ....that applies to everyone, it's not a gender thing IMHO.  Gotta go in the cave...got to get er done. 
 

I absolutely do not take this as an attack and appreciate your concern. And I remember the many discussions about your ex wife and how it went no where. You endured more than I think I could have so kudos to you for that. 

A few things about what I said. I've already moved past that and need to update that comment first of all. Instead of saying "not suited for a relationship " ..the edited version is more like, there's possibly fewer good matches for me. And even more specifically, I'm not going to find a match in the environments I've been in. I would have to change my criteria or priorities to a different demographic than the potential matches that would be suited to me, and I for her. So, in other words,  I'd have to change both the places and the criteria by rearranging my priorities. This isn't saying I'm picky ( because I'm not ) it's saying I would have to become more picky in certain ways. Seriously, even my old therapist even said I needed a really low key lady who isn't easily ruffled...very even keeled I think he said. Low on the drama quotient you might say. So to say not suited isn't really accurate, more like finding a needle in a haystack...just less common, fewer and farther between. So in other words,  where I'm headed is probably not where I would find a partner. I mean, if the needle in the haystack poked me in butt, I'm not opposed to taking a closer look. So that's not saying " suited at all", it's just saying, my trajectory isn't going to find many needles on my current path.  Fate lies on a road called destiny. I'm not on that road, that's not my current purpose. If my lucky stars just happened to align...then so be it.  That's just keeping an open mind is all. 

I also want to say something that happened to me recently. It's was actually in an ADHD group online, where the topic was "Amigdila Hyjacking" I think it was called. So the whole room is filled with people with ADHD of all shapes and sizes. I was scrolling along and caught a glimpse of someone saying its RSD. Another woman commented that the two were different, and went on to explain how they were. Anyway, to shorten this up, I said one word to the second woman about her comment just keeping ot short and sweet saying "correct". Man, you should seen the first woman with ADHD ( the RSD commenter ) light into me. Holy cow, she even announced, I'm having an RSD attack right now so this is lucky day...or something like. And then she went a tirade. That was quite the experience over one word which...there was nothing behind it on my account...and the first woman who responded was actually correcting her..I didn't...but word "correct" triggered her big time. What you just described kinda sounded like. That was a bucket load of contempt right there. I started to do my usual response and quickly deleted it...and left the entire group right then. Man alive, that was unreal. I can assure you without question...I'm WAY way beyond that !! I'd have to go back to my teenage years or less? To find behavior like that where I was that volatile and it would have been from just one word.  So that really have me a taste at just how bad that can be...especially since this gal said up front "this is RSD...tag your it." 

I can't even imagine you putting up with that kind of reaction for 17 years. It also helped me understand the full range of RSD "reactions". I'd mark that one as "severe". Which only validated my original therapist who told me I'm "moderate". And my tests say "moderate" too. So yeah, my RSD reactions, especially in my past were not nearly that severe...even at there worst. It's also probably why I can remember them...because I actually do remember them.

Anyway. I do appreciate your concern and there's no offense taken. I have something I have to do and I've been meaning to do it for a long time. A new to me social media friend was asking me what I was doing and I told her it was on my bucket list and she asked what that was. And I told her, all those years of motorcycle touring around the Western United States with my friends, we were always on two lane back roads, purposely, picking the ( literal ) roads less traveled...on purpose, which meant we didn't know where where we're going to sleep ( ever ). So we found ourselves in all kinds of very cool and interesting place except traveling at 80mph +. So it's like, that's cool place,  zoom, it's gone!  We didn't stop in other words, but I made mental notes about many of those places as "cool place, need to come back here".  So that was years ago and I never made it back. So, I'm going back now, and stopping to smell the roses, and just immersing myself in the environment and sitting and watching nature. Wildlife refuges mainly. Where the wild things are...not so much, a place I'm going to find a lot of potential partners. Unless it's Jane Goodall, and she dead! Lol Kidding. She wouldn't be interested in me cause I'm not a Gorilla. 

But that's really what this is all about right now. Its a bucket list item. And I'm going to check it off my list...and go back to those extremely cool places and make myself at home....for a while.  Like, months at a time! It's an expiration of one. Me myself and I. 

So what I've done up until know is just a Warm up.  I'm just about 105 days living outdoors without ever going indoors even once. My plan is even longer...I'm just getting use to it right now. And since, my new friend asked, and since you're a hunter too, I've never hunted ( for food ) and I thought I'd give it a try. Not because I want to hunt, but I want that experience as a another survival skill. At least birds...is what I'm thinking.  I've never cleaned one...so I need to know how to do that in case I ever needed to. My new friend was concerned about my safety and I told her I going to have my shotgun with me. I'm not a good marksman with a rifle, no experience there...but I use to shoot skeet for fun as a teenager, so I'm pretty decent with a shotgun. So I'll have self protection just in case. And I'm going to buy some slugs ...in case a bear starts getting aggressive.  I seriously doubt, I'll ever have to use it. It's just, no one's coming to save you out there. I have to be prepared for all contingencies just in case. Its just peace of mind.  Just to learn how to shoot something for food ...just to do it, is also on my list of things to learn.

So yeah, I'm building my chuckwagon style trailer to haul behind me loaded with as much glamping gear I call haul and getting ready to do it. I'm just about there. I've got sola power, I've got generators ( 2 ). I'll have extra gas, diese heater, and a pop up yurt to live in. I'm totally coveted. Fridg /freezer, full pantry, frozen food, tons of water, 3 different kinds of stoves, back ups for the back ups...I've covered all the bases. I'm looking forward to that....which I've wanted to do for many many years. It's what we use to do on  motorcycles...except this time, I'm not going Zoom....and staying for a while. Watching the grass grow...hanging out. Cooking good food...and relaxing. I bring beer of course..but it'll have to be rationed ! Lol

Also...I havent taken a real shower or bath in months. Lol I use hospital wipes...they work just fine.

So you see, that's not really the right road ( currently ) to find that needle in a haystack. Un less I accidently to sit on it ( her ) ...and there are no haystack in the desert ! Lol I more apt to get bit by a rattlesnake than meet my perfect match ...and the chances of getting bit by a rattle snake are extremely low as it is.

That's why it's really not relevant to what I'm doing right now. When or if I decide to come back from the wilderness, I'll think about it at that time. I do appreciate you thinking of me tho. 

J

and I have a case of it in my trunk.