Telling ADHD spouse to leave...

He's fighting me tooth and nail. From begging to attacking to generally being obtuse. I've tried explaining several different ways about why he needs to move out. I can no longer take the financial hits, the passive-aggressive attacks, the piles of dirty laundry, cleaning up after his plethora of pets, the trash left everywhere but in the trash can... after six years, I just can't anymore... I've told him if he gets his own place, keeps up with it all, lives within his means, and starts counseling (and between him and his doctor, if medication is recommended, he should), that I'd be willing to consider dating him again and go from there, but he keeps pushing and pushing saying he doesn't understand... how do I explain this to the ADHD brain???

Have things progressed?

Jtim24, how's it going for you?

Have you found what you can do, to improve this, somehow? Hope so!

I hope things have gotten peaceful for you....

Just read your post for the first time Jtim24....When an adult walks out into life, with no desire or ability to discipline themselves, and hold themselves accountable in all the area's you stated....Someone is going to pay!....It's like throwing a child out....But..it's the best thing that can ever happen to them....Sink or Swim...I've seen the product of enablement, from both sides...It's always destructive and dysfunctional....

I hope you stick to your convictions and not allow your peace to be destroyed....

C

Right after I posted this, I

Right after I posted this, I forced him out...

 

Just today, I told him he could move back in. After all, texts and phone calls every day blaming me for erything wrong in his life, from lost clothes due to being forced to live in a hotel, to stolen credit card information, to packages he ordered but never recieved... I felt like now, after a month, maybe he'd learned a lesson or two... I'm too optmistic... I get a text at work, "mopped floors, taking dogs to beach." Milily surprised, but I sent a "thank you, very nice of you" text back.

I get home from work, the floors were mopped, yes. The tub was blackened and gross as this is where he decided to empty out the mop bucket, but not rinse out tub. Walk into bedroom, all his dirty clothes from past month piled on bed...  he ate lunch too apparently, left the stove burner on low and dirty dishes piled in sink.

So I send a text, as he's still at Beach with dogs... mind, he's not even been home a full day yet! And I ask, did something happen? (Giving him an out, obviously...). He pulls up not 2 minutes later and I get the third degree... "nice welcome back! Gee, thanks! So glad I came home to be nagged about the tub being dirty! Guess I'll just skip the gym then, eh? Clean the tub, and sit around and get fat! You'd like that, wouldn't you? Can't even spend the day at the beach without you jumping on my back!" And he slams the door as he says all this, walking by me standing outside and into the apartment....

I'm kicking him out again tomorrow. This is utterly ridiculous. 40 year old man, and this is what I dealt with daily before kicking him out. And he wonders why I can't let him stay and hold his hand through therapy--therapy he has yet to make an appointment for all these months later when I gave that to him as an ultimatum....

 

I'm just done...

I understand you being done!

I just hope you can step back and see what those of us reading this see....It's so hard to see the reality of what is actually taking place in a relationship when there is personal feelings and emotional attachment....

Based on your post he has no clue about responsibility, considering others, and no ability or desire to not use you as his maid....He so looks at you as his Mother and care giver that any time you point out his abuse he will turn it on you...It's probably not intentional he just hasn't ever grown up (He really believes the disaster he left the house in is OK) and taken ownership of his life. Usually that goes back to a lack of discipline and teaching in his formidable years......But, anyway I continue to cheer you on!!....You sure don't deserve what he will dish out the rest of your life....I think once you get him out this time, I would block his number, you don't deserve to here his Victim guilt trips.

At least if he has to deal w/ his own crap long enough, maybe he will grow up eventually and learn some good habits, and he want be destroying your life....

Here's hoping you a Peaceful Life!

C

 

Deborah__'s picture

It Seems Sometimes Being Done Isn't Enough

My husband is a medical professional in psychology. He can twist things to create his own narrative. I'm overwhelmed and don't know how to "unpack" a decade long load of stuff. I left him (twice) 700 miles away. A family emergency caused me to return for what I "thought" would be a couple weeks. However, I ended up needing emergency surgery that left me hospitalized for a month (I will NOT go to the hospital he is employed). Due to being so ill, some things are a bit fuzzy to me. One thing that is crystal clear is that he was escorted out by security due to his mouth. It did not end there. He had to make a big show and demand a meeting with the director the following day or so. I needed a home health nurse for 3 months. As soon as I was well enough to travel, I returned to the place I had been 700 miles away. He came out to where I was and it "appeared" things were on the right path. The communication was open and I believed him when he said certain adjustments had been made. I ended up returning to our home. It took only 3 weeks to see NOTHING had changed. The worst part was that I learned he was being evicted! Do you think I'd have returned if I'd known that?! Of course not! We did move into a nice place. Recently, I had a bad accident that left me with a significant concussion, a line of staples to close a head wound and major orthopedic surgery. He (being a medical professional) took 4 days to help me with a bath. I still had blood caked hair, plus felt dirty from the accident. "I'm too tired!"  The orthopedic Dr's and physical therapy are all in the same building. It's large. I don't like him to go into appointments with me as he constantly interrupts the Dr. So, as we were about to leave the large sitting area (about 60-70 people there, not including staff) he gets so loud and obnoxious someone called the police! It started out with him being loud & demanding with me. I was mortified and began walking out. Evidently, I'd dropped the paper given to me by my surgeon. When I noticed this, I walked back into the building to retrieve the paper. THIS is when I knew the police were there. There was a police woman and with a staff member they had me come into a back room and talk. Yes, in the past we've been to counseling. He stood up, pointed a finger in the therapist's face and said "I'm paying for this and you are going to listen to me!" Again, this is not the most recent event. Last night was about the worst. I'm organized, and try and make sure his clothing etc is clean, folded and in it's proper place. He has commented on how this saves him time...yet, he is always running late...always. Right now, I have injuries that need to be healed and I feel trapped. The screaming, temper tantrums, dirty hair, unbrushed teeth, blaming everyone for his issues (which are real) isn't helping him. The stress seems crushing. He is near retirement age and has no 'retirement'. There are a multitude of ways I've tried encouraging him, listening, being home with him etc etc. Nothing has helped. Now, he says "I've been like this my whole life"...and he honestly expects nothing to ever change. He's clean when he goes to work, but, at home lives like a slob. I'm exhausted, physically unable to deal with his issues. Inside I'm screaming although outwardly no one sees it. I make cards for him, send emails to work, text him. Yet, it appears nothing gets through. IF he was uneducated in this area, that'd be one thing. However, this is the VERY thing he helps others overcome. My friends won't come over when he's home and I have no family nearby. HELP

Hi Deborah...

I was setting her reading your post and thinking about my own life...And how many times I have voiced the words; "I'm Done" either in my head or out loud to her or myself over the past 9 years...But, yet here I set...

The desire to fulfill our Vows and Commitments in a marriage relationship may be one the strongest feelings/attachments a person can experience...(Many reasons for it I think)

I have only recently (past 6 to 8 months) came to the place that I feel like I could walk away w/o any emotion or regret. Knowing if it happens, it will be the best for both of us...Now, I'm not planning on exercising this new found peace in leaving, nor do I want it to transpire...But I've shared with her that I'm at peace with not getting any older fighting, biting and devouring one another just for appearances or bad company....

If we can't share in a loving, intimate and respectful relationship, I'm fine to end our marriage so that the remainder of the days the Lord allows us, can be spent in peace....

Deborah I hope you are able to steer your way to a peaceful solution to your situation. No one should be forced to endure the Narcissistic abuse you have posted about...

C

Deborah__'s picture

Thank You for the Reply!

C

To receive your reply was an encouragement. To simply say thank you is an understatement of vast proportions. You said "But I've shared with her that I'm at peace with not getting any older fighting, biting and devouring one another just for appearances or bad company...." I tried saying something very similar and it ended in a rage...how everything is my fault or everyone else's fault. I'm not up to any big 'blow-outs'. Honestly, I don't know what to do. Right now, I can't do a thing due to physical injuries. In 10 years he's not followed through with a single "promise. I put "promise" in quotes as that's what he tells me every day...I "promise" this or that, etc. Then when it's not done and IF I ask about it it he says "It's not as if it was a contract!" Many times he'll tell me "I'll be right there". Yet, hours can go by. RIGHT THERE, means right there...now, not in hours. Again, I get told "It's not a contract". I'm convinced due to long held behavior patterns he does this (in part) to get a reaction from me. Many times he'll stand by the door frame with his head held down and shoulders slumped (hoping for me to see him and ask a question). I can see him out of the corner of my eye. However, when I pay no attention, he suddenly straightens up and goes about doing what he was doing. Personally, it's a child's game. I am not his mother. He has one daughter who has refused for the last 3 years to see him. She said she's afraid of him (she's in her early 20's). Yet, blame is passed on to everyone else. However, she's an adult and if she chose to contact him she would. I do not believe it's the Lord's plan to live like this...and only He can change it. However, one would need to have an open heart for that change to take place. It's amazing to even be talking like this as it's the things of the Lord he raises most objections. No one, in my entire life has conducted themselves in such a manner toward me...ever. One thing I know, as he's said it many times, he's afraid of losing me again. Yet, I wonder if it's just that he's afraid of being alone. That I don't know. For a medical professional in psychology...this is very odd behavior. One thing I want to add is that the day the police were called to the clinic...while he was outside he began screaming "I HAVE ADHD WHY DOESN'T ANYONE HELP ME!"...which is not true, but that's what he was screaming.

Again, I want to thank you for your reply. It meant a great deal

 

Deborah

Jtim24, good for you!

I think it is very smart of you to kick him to the curb. I wish you every happiness, you deserve it!

I simply have to underscore what c said...

C ur self said that your partner hasn't (yet) developed some adult habits: if you dirty the tub, you clean it right then; if you cook, you wash up, wipe the counters, table & stove - and double check that the stove is turned off.

There's a blind spot, there. I mean, I suspect your partner doesn't see the bigger picture: piling dirty clothes on the bed (why? to sort lights from darks? to more easily pull out what's going into the washer immediately?) is most often intended as a visual prompt to move things along to the next step. But it can easily backfire, because it lengthens a process (laundry handling) that could be simpler. A conjugal bed is more than an available flat surface. So, if it temporarily turns into a laundry processing station, that use must be for a short moment - because the primary *reminder* that the bed serves, is the value we place on intimacy. That's one of the bigger picture blind spots that people - adhd, and non - can stumble over.

Even though he may not be consciously expecting you to act as "the mom," he hasn't developed his sense of "these are the

normal things adult men (and women, anyone) do". He doesn't see things, because he hasn't developed the habits most of us (adhd-ers, too) have.

 

Lending a hand to someone I suspect is adhd, he often considers that I'm "wasting time" when instead of setting things "anywhere" I bring them to where they belong. I tell him that I get overwhelmed from having so many mental reminders for later. And that later, I'll be tired, and hungry. I've told him that when he keeps working past his own feelings of hunger and fatigue, it takes him longer to finish the work, than if he'd stopped to eat, and then finished it. "I can't concentrate when I'm hungry," I say, "and I don't think you can, either, on observation." This is a man who believes he's unmarried because of not having met his perfect match... Oh well. :)

How are you, Jtim24?

 

Setting things anywhere, and "wasting time".

"Lending a hand to someone I suspect is adhd, he often considers that I'm "wasting time" when instead of setting things "anywhere" I bring them to where they belong."

    This reminded me of something I wanted to bring up earlier but forgot, so thought I'd put it here, because it sort of fits.

There's something that my husband does that I've wondered if anyone else's spouses do, or any of those WITH ADHD may do. (just an observation) I will clean up the house, put everything back in it's place, making sure the kitchen countertops are cleaned off, tables are cleaned off, dressers cleared of clutter and junk, bathroom counters, etc. But, as SOON as my husband walks in the door, he will put WHATEVER is in his hands in the "clean" area, even if it has a specific place where it should go, and it better suited for it to go. He'll say, "I'm just going to put this right here". Then, he will even get other things and continue to fill up the clean spaces with other stuff as if he's almost FILLING IT BACK UP ON PURPOSE.

     He LIKES the clean, straightened house, without clutter, but within just a few minutes or hours, he's cluttered the CLEAN back up again, as if to tell me he hates clean and prefers the clutter. I know his mind is full of clutter, and everywhere HE has stuff is cluttered, which he complains about incessantly, but rarely if ever straightens it up. WHAT IS THIS? Is this an extension of his mind? or an unconscious desire for everything to look as cluttered as his head is? I seriously don't know, but it is seriously frustrating when I've done HOURS upon hours of cleaning and work to tidy up, and within a day, it can be a mess again. I've asked him about this, and he says, "Well, that doesn't matter"......YES IT DOES. It feels to me like he disrespects all the effort it took to make our home clean, neater, and more livable, instead of a mess As well as disrespecting the time it took me to do this, as well as the physical dynamic of this.. Any takers on this?, just wondering.

Deborah__'s picture

My Spouse Does This, Too!

I had set absolutely everything in order...as a "template". Everything was done, all one needed to do was follow the template. It didn't last. The EXCUSE, "I have ADHD, I can't remember all that". This upset me so badly I felt as if I could spit fire. Then, I had a serious accident (written about in above posts). He is a medical professional in psychology and helps folks that have ADHD. Yet, for him (according to himself) "I've been this way my whole life. It's a brain dysfunction". There are a multitude of things made so easy a 5 year old could follow it. Yet, he cannot (or simply refuses to take responsibility)

 

Deborah__

Dede....

:)...I wish I could post pictures...;)...Yes, they are all covered....This is what I've decided it is....If it's not visible, it don't exist...Plus, they are always running late...So if the things they use or need for the next day is just laying there they might not forget....Just my opinion.....

I use to clean them up...Now I just keep the one's around the sink and stove usable...So when she is wanting company or to have a family gathering around holidays the 8 hours of cleaning counters, tables and pile's of clothes and every other thing she has strewn every where is her deal...I want touch anything expect my supplements and protein powder that covers one little spot...

C

I like tidy spaces as much as

I like tidy spaces as much as anyone.  But think about it from the point of view of someone with ADHD.  A tidy house is one in which it's that much easier for the person with ADHD to put stuff anywhere he or she wants and find it more quickly.  I'm sure that most people with ADHD don't like to look for things and know that they'd be less likely to lose things if the home were neat.  But something they like even less is putting things away in the right spots.  

This! This! This!

This is why I refuse to straighten up anymore. He claims to hate clutter, but when he walks in the door from work, he dumps all his stuff on the kitchen counter, despite the fact that I bought TWO pieces of furniture that are in the entrance right by the front door so that we all would have a designated spot to put stuff (large bench with cubbies underneath for shoes and a large shelf with six large cubbies...he took over 4 of the cubbies...there are 5 of us...we each should have one cubby and the 6th is supposed to be for things like hats and mittens or bug spray and sunscreen. Not only is he hogging the cubbies, he also puts his junk on top of the shelf which in theory we all agreed to keep clear.

So it's NOT as though he has no place other than the kitchen counter to put his junk! It's maddening.

He gets annoyed when the girls leave art stuff on the dining room table...my reaction is So what?? His stuff covers every inch of the dining room table, the kitchen counters, the coffee table and the sofa  and our dresser and the floor on his side of the bed. I used to go around the house picking things up and putting them away, but whatever decluttering I did was completely undone the next time my husband came into the room.

I am now on strike. I hate the way our house looks but I refuse to waste my time and energy picking up and straightening up just to have it completely cluttered again 30 minutes later.  

I used to get so annoyed and irritated and angry. Now I'm just done. He used to complain when I expressed my anger and annoyance...at the time I said, You know what, be glad that I care enough to be upset. The day that I stop complaining is the day when I've given up and I'm halfway out the door. That day has come.

 

 

Just Pile it....somewhere else

I had this for decades! The frustration of a messy H who doesn't see the mess.  What I did was this... I take ALL of his stuff and put them any old which way in HIS areas.  I just keep pileling it on top of piles in HIS areas.  He doesn't seem to mind.  He expects it.  He doesn't move it.  He lives in and around the piles of dirty junk.  His areas are his office and the downstairs TV room.  I have done the same with our 2 car garage.  he cannot park his car in his side.  When his junk starts creeping to my side or if he startd a project on my side, I move it.....without much regard in how or where....just pileing it....like he has done to us for decades.  He doesn't seem to mind...sort of knows that he deserves it OR he really just doesn't see it.  When we invite family for big events where they might see his messes, I tell him the week of and the day before.  He will pick up and vacuum only when people outside of the family might see it.  It seems that is where his energy goes...making a "face" for the outside world. ....  not being a team member to build and support within the team.   That is the way it goes here.  But..I don't have the problem of H putting his stuff all around an organized home.

A few years ago, when ex-h

A few years ago, when ex-h and I were still married and we sometimes shared a car, he left some stuff on the front passenger seat.  I might have asked him to bring the items inside; I'm not sure.  Anyway, it was his stuff, and he left it on the seat, so the next time I was driving and he was the passenger, I didn't move the things, and he just sat on them.  And still didn't notice they were there.

L.O.L.

hahahahah ouch hhahahahaha ouch

Exactly.  Are they the same person?

building towers?

This made me think of another example of this "awareness of environment" or "not particularly concerned about environment" whatever this is.  H vacuumed his tv area about 2 months ago.  When he vacuums, he piles the furniture up on top of each other so that he can easier vacuum....then doesn't put the furniture back.  There are, to this day, a rocking chair on top of the sofa and a foot stool on top of a chair and more....   I leave them there for him.  I don't understand it.  It seems odd to me.  Is it the same thinking like keeping the vacuum out where people can see it so it "looks like" someone is cleaning?  Or is it that he really doesn't see it?  Is it cluelessess or is it stubbornness?   Lazy or vengeful?  I have to stop trying to figure things out and just go with it and on to other things.  

Independence

If our marriage was what H would like, I will guess because H does not share or communicate, it would be a series of drama spats followed by sex. It would be total financial independence, time and energy independence, and someone would cater to his needs of food, clothing, housing, sex.  And he would have 5 vehicles (he has 3 cars of his own plus two tractors) and free reign to flirt and gab for hours.  

If our marriage was what I would like, we would be partners and companions. We would discuss what we both want and choose what monies and energies we would decide together to do, then do them together.  We would be comfortable traveling together and building a family together.

I have been married.  My husband has not been married. I can't believe this is my life!

Rich man indeed....

A man w/ two tractors and gets all the Sex he wants from his W, has figured it out!...LOL...

Not what I was led to believe but true.

Yes, C, it seems so.  Now that I am this age, I am seeing that the more a person grabs for himself, the more he gets.  And also that what you put up with is what you have.

I hope u know I was joking Jenna? to a degree:)

Of all the wonderful things this life can offer, none is better than a good marriage relationship...My definitions of a good one is...One that gets sweeter everyday!...

In reference to your short post above, where you guessed (your observation of his actions) what is important to ur H, in a marriage.. Then you made a statement of what YOU would love for it to be (your thinking and feelings)....Isn't that basically the story of all our marriages?? 

I think that very few marriage participants ever become satisfied when we work at it from our own thinking....His/Hers....Because I can't help but selfishly want my way, and in my experience (first wife 30 years and this one 9 years) she can't either...So what to do??

For me, the answer is to make the goal for myself as a husband the gospel...If I take on (pursue) the responsibilities the gospel calls me to, and seek to discipline my life based on these truths.. My wife will be cared for, Loved and lived w/ in an understanding manner...(Whether she recognizes it or not, isn't my thing, submitting myself to it, is my thing) ...The extremely hard part for me has been to work to this end, without becoming a victim. When all I seem to get in return is selfishness:(...And I see that a lot on this forum...I'm not alone! LOL...

So what I've found out about (painfully) my self is I must seek a tender heart of humility (beware of bitterness!) And most of all believe in the Christ and his love for me..Or  I will find myself all wound-up w/ stress and self-righteously preaching at her about her failings...Like it could ever help her ,or me, or change a dang thang!..LOL...But sadly what it does do is destroys any good feelings that we may be experiencing....

Have you ever wondered why it can be so hard to communicate with our mates? But so easy to communicate w/ everyone else....Me and a good friend of mine and his Son drove to Tampa Fl (about 11 hour drive) and watched a few spring training baseball games during spring break...We talked all the way there and back (as excited as two little kids, getting to do something we always talked about)...And never had a cross word, or quiet moment...Why do you think that can happen?? Maybe because neither of us wanted anything, or had any expectation for the other, expect to be present and share.....LOL...Why can't many husbands and wives be happy and peaceful just being side by side?? 

Expectations maybe:)?? (You owe me! I want something from you! if I'm going to do such and such, you need to do such and such?) Tit for tat marriages... Yep, the words I love you, and unconditional love get thrown around very lightly...These statements of self declaration or like many things, easy to spit out, But difficult to live out....For some of us anyway....

C

Hope springs eternal

Thanks, C, for your words of strength and faith.  I know that my strength comes when I have the courage to accept that things are the way that they are with as little denial and distraction as I can tolerate.  I know that if am mindful to be in a stance of beautiful strength, that I will be all right no matter what is happening around me. These last few weeks I have been close to tears and a little shaky every day as I MAKE myself accept the history and the present of my life in this marriage.  As I accept my part, my decisions, my many relationships with many people over the years.  How I lived small and obedient to what I was taught.  I had been pointing a finger at H in my mind saying to myself, "He is like a child.  He should 'grow up'".  I am changing that internal dialogue saying to myself about myself right now, "Look how YOU have been immature", waiting for directions from others on how to be and decide.  Wanting others to be responsible for my happiness, my guilt, my situation my "life laws".  I used to pray to ask God to deliver me from difficult situations, for safety for my family, for forgiveness.  And I used to believe that God would hear my prayer and answer my prayer if I had enough prayer....mustard seed and all.   I had not been giving myself permission to make big mistakes and have the courage to "go against" any authority outside of myself......especially the Bible as interpreted for me by well-meaning but naive/narrow thinking Sunday teachers and preachers.  I would let myself be tortured with visions of punishment and guilt and the thought that if I thought wrong, Jesus and God would hate me and leave me stranded alone and adrift and condemned.  I am coming out of this childish way of being and thinking. I had been conditioned to believe ministers in churches and all authoritative voices.   What have the churches done to sensitive, obedient-type, impressionable people? (especially girls who get a double whammy of shame and dishonor - remember it was Eve's fault for tempting Adam to sin story.  

Anyway, now I am working hard to change my inner dialogue along with a more forward/open changing church giving me some peace and acceptance and strength to allow myself a brain, mistakes, ownership of my own life and some risks.  It has come so late in my life, I can only hope for ways and opportunities to undo the effect of my decisions, actions and words I might have participated in to add to the snowball of fear and guilt and shame that I was taught in the name of discipline and goodness.  

I am grieving lost time and past mistakes from living small.  Hopefully I will be able to do a few courageous things for the sake of my children and grandchildren and other people before I die....and not leave this life having served and cleaned and cooked and compromised, ending in being hated and ignored for it by the person/s for whom I thought I was doing it for. I was such a Martha, I missed a lot  and I don't really know how to be a Mary....I have a BIG fear that stops me from being present in the moment - afraid that things won't "get done" and I will be punished for being selfish.   'workin' on it.

Jenna...

Martha was doing good things; (loving and serving), she just needed a gentle reminder to not allow this world to overwhelm her when Jesus was present:) And he is always present w/ his Father's children...

 (I would let myself be tortured with visions of punishment and guilt and the thought that if I thought wrong, Jesus and God would hate me and leave me stranded alone and adrift and condemned.) 

This statement of yours; same here!...I had lived many years (in doubt and fear) before I finally understood (or found the faith to believe it) (Romans 8:1....There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.) How could that be?? How could the Christ's death on the cross make me innocent?? I knew how bad this flesh was, and how many thoughts I had to fight! So, my problem wasn't, like you pointed out well meaning teachers and preachers...My problem was and is the weakness of my flesh and my own faith....

 I couldn't accept the Power of the redemptive work Jesus did for me...In my opinion, much of the problems in the world today concerning "Christians" come from the word "Religion".....Christianity isn't religion...It's relationship....Jesus taught us to pray this away...Our Father, who art in Heaven....Our Father??

I've lived beneath my privileges for way to long....

c, beneath my privileges

My problem was and is the weakness of my flesh and my own faith     My problem was and is my weakness of spirit...somewhere I gave in, gave up, gave out.  Same thing.  I am not sure I know what "weakness of the flesh" is although I have heard the phrase a lot.

I've lived beneath my privileges for way to long....  Very well said.  I have put my heart, my body, my energies last and not enjoyed the richness of life that was given to me.

 

You may never know the good that you have done....

(I have put my heart, my body, my energies last and not enjoyed the richness of life that was given to me.)

Just one more thought Jenna; Your faithfulness to be a wife who has loved, cared, and put her time, energy and body into her marriage is a precious and beautiful thing...Its obedience and honor...So, I suggest you never, ever, ever regret doing the right thing!...Every one of us that take a Vow to be a H or W is not only Vowing it to our spouse...But we are Vowing it to the one who created marriage...Two being One flesh....

Each of us as individuals will either make the choice to honor our vows, or we will make excuses and the choice not to. (there's no in between)....We just can't allow our view of what is coming back cause us to fall into the second category....

I will never have to stand before the Father for my wife's sin....But if I know to do good, and don't do it...I will answer for those sins. 

Blessings

C

Why?

Dede, the Q. your asking...Why does he do what he does?  That question is so intriguing it's hard to not ask it, even if we are just asking it with in our own minds...But my life is much better (more at peace) when I don't ask it...

When we come home from trips I unpack, dirty to laundry room, clean back into the dresser or closet...Luggage put away....She never unpacks... lol...She just drops the suitcases at the door and over the next few days they will find there way next to her side of the bed. Or on the floor or bed in one of the quest rooms...And she just continues drag stuff out of them as she needs it....Now if I will just ignore it (accept it, as who she is) ...I can laugh like I'm doing now, w/ no stress at all...But if I ask Why? when she has no idea herself, I have found myself closer to a little stress kicking up...Why? LOL... because I feel she should know, and be able to give a suitable answer..LOL :) Ha ha ha!.....Besides two things happen when I ask why..The first thing that happens when you ask a women "Why" (or my wife at least) She don't hear a question! She hears I don't accept you! You are broken...And I'm left standing there like a deer in headlights....All I can say is HUH??  Secondly the question Why...Is a very close cousin to Fix and Change!!! I'm want no part of trying to force my way into that family group again :)

C

The answer to 'why?'

The answer to why your wife leaves the luggage on the floor and uses the suitcase as a stand in for the drawer and hangers is ADHD.  Stuff around is often invisible to those with ADHD.  Also, putting things away takes precious time, is incredibly UNINTERESTING and - hey - doesn't really matter since the underlying issue is 'can I find my stuff?'  Drawers are just one way to answer tha question in the affirmative...an open suitcase is another.

The neurotypical among us view certain types of organizational structures (such as drawers) as 'right' and inherently superior to suitcases.  But who made that rule, anyway?  I remember one man who was incensed that his wife left her clean laundry in the laundry room instead of putting it away in the drawers "like normal people."  But her system worked for her - she found clean clothes when she needed them and quickly...plus she saved time on putting stuff into drawers.

There are some things that make sense just so you can l ive your lives together.  I know of one couple who got divorced because the husband rebuilt cars in the living room.  I'm NOT suggesting 'anything goes' here!  All I'm saying is that some of our assumptions about what 'ought' to be could stand to be examined.  I applaud you for not worrying about your wife's unpacking habits.  If, over time, so much stuff piles up that it starts to feel awful to you, you can gently point that out without attacking her 'way' of doing things.

And, next time you are tempted to ask 'why do you do that?' (which she hears as a rebuke) you can simply answer the question in your own mind...because ADHD folks often do things differently and aren't always constrained by convention.

P.S.  Both my husband and I often have open suitcases or full laundry baskets in our room.  It's a great way to find what you wear most often!  :-)

Thanks for your input on the reality of ADHD Melissa...

It has taken me quiet a long while to learn to be understanding and accepting of these difference's...Not saying I'm there, but, I'm progressing...And your points are good ones...

There are overwhelming factors that can apply like trip hazards (can't help but have a little fear of her tripping and falling in the dark, esp. as she ages) due to super messiness, and putting so much into a space where it's almost impossible to clean or dust...(agreed upon boundaries are helpful)

You make very great points here about the "WHY" that can get lost on those of us who can feel negatively impacted daily (It's always before our face :)....

Accepting how she cope's w/ life, based on her mind, and her thinking....When I can do as you say, live and let live, (acceptance) then my focus can be placed in area's of my own life that make me a better man and spouse. Also it limits the damage I do to her psyche and emotions (we all just want to be accepted and loved)

Acceptance truly has helped me keep my energy's placed in a more healthy place...It's productive and definitely limits conflict...The way it should be, right? :)

You do such a wonderful job, and have taken on such a noble and real life pursuit for your life's work....I applaud and appreciate you!

Blessings

C

Open suitcases and full

Open suitcases and full laundry baskets can be part of systems that work.  Piles of papers everywhere, in which are buried important financial documents that must be signed and returned, aren't part of systems that work.  

PoisonIvy, I agree with this.

PoisonIvy, I agree with this.  Messy room is tolerable.  Messy finances and messy hygiene is where I want to draw my boundaries.  I had been putting up with it.  Negotiation and support has not worked out.  I am at a place where I have to shut up or move out.

Jenna, Posion Ivy;This comes to mind reading ur posts....

Most of the things I feel taken advantage of in, that causes me anxiety or frustrations aren't intentional....So, I must remind myself of this daily as I encounter the things that seem so irresponsible to me...Or I suffer!....

The reality of what I'm experiencing is a spouse who has clinical level ADHD. The facts of her life or lived out....She lived this way when she was single, and she would live this way w/ any man she was married to...It's a life style chosen for her based on the working of her mind. (Not a choice).

That's the reality of her life and her mind....Her life style is not a direct attack on me or anyone else... And if I don't remind myself of this (daily) I can stay unhealthily absorbed by it all...

I have found the only way to protect her and myself from conflict and unhealthy situations is with boundaries....I do not see how anyone with these differences can have a peaceful situation without boundaries...

I'm not a women, but, I can only imagine how hard it is to put down boundaries for a husband....A husband you want to love, respect and desire...I suggest you have no choice in many area's of life where you know (based on the reality of their past choices) it will end badly...No one wants to live divided in so many areas...We want the fairy tale....We want happily ever after.....I have found out living with ADHD...The fairy tale ending is found in Boundaries and Acceptance...

My wife's mail is everywhere...It starts on the table in a pile, and from there it's where ever she leaves it...I think the important stuff is under her feet on the drives side of her car or in a plastic bag on the passengers seat or floorboard....Mine is a simple process...trash mail ripped in half and strait to the garbage, (some things gets shredded) important mail strait to a cubby hole on the desk. And I disperse it from there. 

I tried to help her live like me when we came home from our honeymoon... LOL...I gave her a cubby hole explained the simple logic of it to her....She immediately refused it, and set down a boundary for me..."Any thing with her name on it goes in a pile on the table, and I am to never open mail with her name on it"....Me: Bewilderment, but OK :)..I was 50, she was 46....And it's been total difference in thinking and living ever since...

I don't have to understand my wife's mind to love and respect her....But we do have to have boundaries to protect our rights to live the lives we chose and are capable of...My wife can learn new things and so can I (as hard headed I am).

We must watch out for trying to force our perspective on someone who is incapable of managing their life based on our expectations...Control and manipulation can never play a role in a healthy marriage...But acceptance and boundaries will always play a role in healthy marriages....

C

Hi Daizzebelle

I've been away for a bit, but I'm came back to see what's up?  Chiming here with a few things I've learned?  I'm the ADHD guy with all of these things going on to one degree or another, but I've spent some time focusing on them to get a lot of it under control?  Much better than I ever use to, so from that perspective I can say one thing to add in here that may help see things from a different angel?

My wife I suspect has ADHD undiagnosed, so that gives me a really clear picture at times of what is exactly going on sometimes?  And what is going on for the most part boils down to what is hard and takes a lot of effort ( subjectively ) in that, you can't know exactly how hard it is to change old patterns and habits especially when they serve a purpose other than what you might think?  That, may be directly tied to ADHD and the reasons why that is?  But in a distinctly unrelated way, not everything is ADHD and there is a thing called "laziness" that is not related to ADHD?  Laziness, is just laziness no matter which way you slice it?  And the fastest way to make someone lazy, is to do it for them.  Simply put?  What ever it is that is hard, is easier if someone else does it for you?  So if that's the case, and separating the wheat fro the chaff here?  Don't do it for him, and make him do it himself?  That means, you might have to give up something in the meantime, and live with things not exactly the way you  them to be, but, having said that, I think the mistake people make, is doing it for them, and then being angry and resentful about that?  Given the choice, if your going to be angry and resentful?  it takes a whole lot less energy to not do it for him, and be resentful that it's not exactly the way you want it while being insistent that it's his mess, and he needs to fix it.  Done deal. LOL  Experience is the best teacher anyway, but it does take time to learn from that experience?  And laziness, just begats more of it you can almost count on that one for sure. Not everything is ADHD you know?   There was a saying that popped into my head just now. "Don't get mad, get even:"  If you take that, and apply it as "even"...being his part of his mess?  That would make sense all things considered?

J

J is right on target in my opinion....

It's not about "why" (laziness, adhd, unconcern, being enabled) It's about learning to not allow yourself to be effected by it...I do exactly what Jenna said she does...I stopped the cleaning up behind her unless I can't get ready (bathroom) or cook my own meals...If she leaves clothes (trip haz.) in the floor, I just pick them up and pile them on her big pile along her side of the bed...Like Jenna said, she expects it. We've fought these wars, and I set boundaries to protect us both, her right to live surrounded by piles of junk, and my right to have clear walk paths and no trip haz...

We must be able to (still working on it) have love and mutual respect even when we have such huge difference's...For me it takes acceptance for her rights no matter what I think about it...

She is prone to take over things that she likes, (some my call it addiction;)...Example:...We have direct TV...I pay the bill...She keeps 13 programs recording at all times....The available space is usually around  15 to 20 %...She use to allow it to go lower, and defend her right to do it, based on the fact I don't record as much as she does....Boundary..I've told her 1/2 of the space is mine, and I want to respect your right to have all these programs...But, if I decide to record and its full (She even keeps stuff she's already seen) I'm going to delete your stuff starting with what you've already watched....Of course she didn't like it, (of course I knew she wouldn't, victims never do, but, I don't care, because its fair, it's tough love, and it's not allowing myself to be run over) but she has gotten good at making sure she keeps me some available space....

Daizzebelle she would do exactly what you said about the ben's if we had that system...Like I said it doesn't matter "why" it's happening, the fact is no matter the "why", the effects on the rest of the family is the same regardless of the "why"...So we have to stand up for ourselves when married to a mind that is oblivious to their intrusiveness...The Golden nugget is to do it w/o emotion just because it's RIGHT!...And not as a fearful VICTIM....Who just stews in their own anger until they blow up...Which makes you more wrong than them...Plus it gives the intrusive party an out for their behavior (this type mind loves to blame to take the focus of their actions)....If we ever learn to act out of love in a peaceful state of mind ( with as few of words as possible, many can't follow them anyway, and that just causes more frustration for them in my experience)... because it's the right thing we can move forward even if it's baby steps...

We must learn to accept each other, but we also must learn to stand up for ourselves without emotion....I fold my clothes and put them in the proper drawers, My hanging stuff gets put on hangers and hung up (that's who I am)....She buys no wrinkle dresses and clothes, because she is going to live out of piles...(It's who she is) These are facts and nothing can change it as long as God allows us life, unless, she or I decide to change ourselves....IF that is even possible:)

My anger and frustrations 90% of the time early in the marriage was because I wanted to FIX her...In hind site based on what was normal for her..(The way she lived) I was giving her Hell about how she lived...But all that did was damage our relationship and hinder our ability or desire to bond....

So i realized and am still realizing...If I'm going to get old with this person (anger, bitterness and cleaning up after another adult is not an option for me)  I've got to accept her lifestyle no matter "why" she is like she is....

Also it's better to not discuss (bring up) things that have no control over themselves to not defend....(even if what you did was self preservation) Just causes arguments...

I came to the conclusion about a year ago now...That every thing that I need to have a peaceful life, lies within me...It may be boundaries, It maybe tough love, It maybe be saying No a lot...It may be walking away w/ out a word a lot...It may be taking vacations alone, It may be a calm conversation...It maybe heart felt repentance, and apologies...It may be a lot of prayer and a stronger faith...It may be living alone....It maybe many things...But God through the Christ has equipped me to be at peace...

C

Clutter..leaving it, or living with it.

This IS an interesting subject, and thanks to everyone who posted a response. (GREAT responses, thanks) There is one thing I forgot to mention in the original post, which was, what H would say when he walked in the door and took the time to SEE the messes everywhere. He would say, "This house is a shithouse". (sorry for the crude language, his word) This got said pretty often, when most of the messes were his own. He'd pick out the one or two items or mess I had done and make it a point to point THAT out, but again not his own. He would say almost every single day, "I've got to clean this up", but then it would take months, maybe years or never. Yes, it's a job that almost no one loves to do, or wants to do, but some things HAVE to be done regardless of how we "feel" about them.

    There were many times I tried the "just leave it there" and eventually he'll put it away or get to it.......nope. The drill would stay on the kitchen counter for weeks at a time that I"d have to move so I could cook. Tools left on the living room floor, jackets hung on the dining room chairs (on the other side of the house)  instead of the coat closet right inside the front door, stacks of papers put everywhere, and bills stacked up a foot high on again, the kitchen counter.(where he'd say LEAVE THEM THERE, because I need to have them there) Sometimes these messes are created dangerous situations to where I am going to trip over them and possibly fall, or even possible fire hazards. My disability does leave me to where it's easy for me to trip and fall, so I need to be careful where I'm walking. 

     Since I will be going back to the house to get our papers and legal stuff in order, I WILL do the move his stuff to his areas and leave it. He usually doesn't see things on a counter top een when HE puts it there anyway. lol   example: There were DOZENS of times he would be in an angry huff yelling 'Where did you put the hairbrush?" I'd  walk in the bathroom, pick the brush up off the countertop and put it in his hand. (right there) It was right there, in plain view, on a countertop with not many things even ON it, and he still didn't see it, so that is bizarre to me. Yes, I've done this myself occasionally, but not to the extensive degree he's done this.  (paper towel tube vision maybe?) puzzling. This he still does, but living with himself for the past year, he hasn't had anyone to "get" stuff for him. Yet, he still has managed to dress himself without help. 

    Sometimes, this has made me wonder if he just wants someone else to do things for him. (can we use the lazy word?) It's interesting, because, he HATES the word lazy, and makes it a point to tell people he's not lazy, and how hard he works. I think he does have a problem with being lazy, and is afraid to say it, because the defensiveness about even the word "lazy",  can make his blood boil. Maybe his parents, or his father called him lazy, or something, but there IS definitely something behind this, I think.

    I really don't relish the idea of living in a messy house, to keep the peace, because I find a clean and straightened house "calming, and peaceful", and it gives me an orderly place to relax and rest especially when I"m in severe pain. So, I've got WORK to do on myself with this one.