I'm writing this to share some disturbing events and experiences I've had this week while on vacation and just before. I've worked this out with the help of an AI Chat program, that's actually been extremely helpful for me as a Journaling tool. It gives me food for thought when I'm stuck and keeps a steady flow of ideas and thoughts moving through my head.
Before we left, on the very morning we were to leave, I stood my ground on something that was said and tried to create a boundary that involved our itinerary. I don't even remember what it was now, but it's not that important. We weren't fighting, it wasn't an argument, I was simply choosing to speak up about something important to me, and I triggered my SO. This escalated so fast, is why I don't even remember the exact cause but..... she came straight at me and slammed her fists on my chest, then grabbed my shirt with one hand, got up in my face and cocked her arm back and made a fist as if to hit me. My only response in that moment was what I saw: "this is contempt. This is hatred."
I wasn't afraid, I was shocked and I froze ( freeze, fawn, flight ) and it immediately brought back memories or my past at home with my dad. I made that connection almost instantly and I realized what this was. Specifically, it was the "threat of physical violence" as an attempt to dominate and control me by coercive means.
My SO wasn't going to hit me. I knew it right then. I wasn't afraid if she did, she really isn't that strong or intimidating physically. That's not the issue, I have no fear of danger in terms of my physical body and it kind of fell flat on the floor as having that effect. I tower over her in those terms.
After spending the last three days with her extended family: her son, her daughter in-law, her mother in law and her father in law....I've witnessed and been exposed to a troubling, very toxic family relationship from living first hand under one roof and sharing the living space with them. I've relived my own past in some ways, yet this combination of elements is quite different. There's a completely dysfunctional dynamic between the mother in law and daughter in law, and the means of comunication seems to be through triangulation, channeled through the daughter in law, who dominates every decision made, yet, the mother in law is constantly ( silently ) hostile, and in competition except when she experts her authority. I've witnessed:" I'm the wife, do as I say! " to her husband, and "I'm the mother.....blah blah blah." It's dominance through position with a self righteousness attitude. And she gets whatever she wants, in that moment this way.
The daughter in law is another story, but all said and done, she has an almost militaristic heirarchal way of taking control at every turn, and deciding for everyone based on what she wants. Between these two...there's a very uncomfortable ( current of hostility ) and walking on egg shells that creates a silent response in everyone. Silence is created my this dynamic.
For me, it's been like watching my childhood now as an adult. I can see it in real time, why I learned to to do what I do. As a child, remaining silent was my means to survived. Now, I'm watching grown adults acting this way and I'm the observer. As I was growing up, sitting in the back of the theatre...watching these characters up on stage performing this scripted play.
And my SO, seems to fit right in. When I privately asked what's going on here...she replied " oh, it's just family stuff" and laughed it off.
There are no boundaries here with these two women. They demand, control, and dominate by coercion in a reward and punishment system that seems quite clear to me now. I see it, for exactly what it is, and who's the ones in power.
I'm finding it disturbing, along with my SO attempt at coersion by physical intimidation, to get me to shut up. As I said, I was attempting to set a boundary when it happened and I'm now seeing.....this is a way of life for these people.
My SOs biggest change, and in our relationship came when her son and daughter in law had the twins. When she started spending a lot of time in this environment, she herself started acting this way...playing her part, as scripted in this toxic environment. It literally shifted, as she spent more and more time with them due to the babies.
I realize now, it had nothing to do with spending time away from me, or focusing her attention on the babies that's caused me to feel bad. Thus bad feeling comes from the fact, that she's defaulted to behaving like her family and bringing that home to me. That sticky toxic goo, has rubbed off on her which is most disturbing to me.
J
Comments
Insightful
Man that sounds like a lot J! Oddly enough, I've been in your position when the clarity comes ringing through like a bell. A bell you can't unring.
Now that you've had this experience, what next step are you taking??
Your story has enlightened me to remind myself that I too have been wrapped up in in laws stuff that has been a stage or a theatre for a show...without the main characters acknowledging what they are doing. It reminds me that I must continue to do thr work on myself and not take on someone else's...but that we all have a limit and breaking points.
You might not be afraid yet
But I'm very concerned for you.
Raising a fist to you, however physically unthreatening she might be, is very very far from acceptable behaviour. No loving partner does this. A boundary has been shattered.
My brother, a skilled manual labourer who's as solid as an ox, experienced something like this with his (thank God now ex) wife. It escalated, until one day she came at him with a knife.
There is a risk that should you get into a tussle with her, trying to defend yourself, you can yourself get accused of domestic violence.
All my instincts are screaming for you to get out, get far away from this toxic situation, as fast as you can. If I were in your shoes I would wait till they were out, then pack a bag and go.
We have this organisation in the UK: you might get some insight, if not direct support here:
https://mankind.org.uk
there are probably similar in the US.
Good luck.
J, it doesn’t sound good
Sorry, J. I agree with Honestly. This isn’t a good dynamic.
You said some other time you weren’t sure you trusted your SO. I’m concerned too that you may be in an unsafe relationship.
Please take care.
Swidish , A While Back
When I first returned here after my time away. We had a discussion about Lizs behavior then in terms of "Control". You brought to light the idea of "dominating " as a separate issue and one to be aware of.
And yes, the mention of trust and what I said.
In my mind, this has now crossed into the realm of domination in my untrained experience. It definitely affects how I see my situation now, compared to a year ago.
If I had to guess, this IS an example of someone trying to dominate using coercive force to get their way. A threat of violence.
I haven't forgotten what you mentioned, it's been sitting there waiting for the confirming evidence.
I appreciate you, and everything you done to help me.
J
deleted
I'm trying to delete this as it was the result of a misreading
Thanks for the input !
I said I've been using AI Chat to help organize my thoughts. It also synthesis what I imput into it, and feeds it back to me in a linear organized way.
Here's what it said in light of all your responses:
I’ve been sitting with what’s happened and the responses here, and I used AI to help me organize my thoughts. What came out of that feels important to share back.
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Where I Am Now
What happened — Liz grabbing me by the collar and raising her fist — wasn’t just anger or a bad moment. It was abuse. A boundary was shattered. Trust, which was already shaky, feels even more compromised now.
There’s also the reality of escalation. Once a line like that is crossed, it’s not just about what already happened — it’s about what could happen. And that includes not only physical risk but the possibility that if I ever had to defend myself, I could be the one blamed. That’s sobering.
The image that stays with me is the “bell you can’t unring.” Once this has happened, I can’t unknow it. I can’t go back to believing this relationship is only about quirks or misunderstandings. Safety has been broken.
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The Questions I’m Holding
What does safety look like for me now?
What boundaries or choices do I need to make, knowing this was abuse?
How do I keep from minimizing, when the reality is so clear?
What step — even if small — moves me closer to protecting myself?
The answer is, I'm not exactly sure, but moving in the direction to being prepared to exit has been on my mind. I have an exit strategy...but the timing and my financial situation will require some time to accomplish.
When I first shared this with the AI program, it too, said basically the same thing which is why I shared this here.
Third Times the Charm
I'm following up with my exit strategy when the time comes. This grabbing my shirt collar and holding her closed fist cocked and ready to strike, is actually the third time she made physical contact with me. The first time, was when there was a spider in the kitchen and she yelled for help. I got up to see what I could do, and she was yelling and waving her pointed finger, in the direction of where the spider was. She wasn't pointing exactly where so I asked "where?". She became upset that her waving pointed finger was enough for me tp hone in on it since blended in with the granite counter. Somewhere around that time, she kicked me, out of frustration. This was over a spider, which I had nothing to do with.
The second time, as I've now come to fully understand the avoident nervous system, I was attempting to converse with her about something important which, I believe was related with boundaries again. She came at me, and hit me with both fists on my chest. And yes, if I recall, she was behaving in a hurtful manner, and dissmising my feelings and I was trying to tell her, "where she was wrong". That's all it takes. Pointing out "wrong doing " on her part, and the switch gets flipped. She has no control of herself, or even fully remembers after it happens. Vaughly, but in her mind, she's dome nothing wrong so it quickly disappears from her memory. That's the "letting it go" as she calls it. When the switch gets flipped, and she's in "fight" mode, she doesn't remember details well.
And this last time, it escalated to grabbing my collar, pulling me in, and raising her fist as to say, " this is what will happen, if you do this again."
I am really tired of being the one to blame, as well as the threats and ultimatum that come with these events. I think there might have been a fourt time that was more of a shove ....and that was when I tried to get her to read Melissa's book and talk about the parent child dynamic. This flipped the switch again regardless, and she threatened to throw me out if I didn't drop the subject entirely. It was the same reaction to me telling her she was treating me like a child...especially with the reward and punishment aspect if I went outside anything she disapproved of. This was the equivalent of her mother in law, yelling at her husband saying " I'm the wife ( mother ) do as I say! "
This is part of the entire family dynamic. It's in the core of their behavior and I'm sure, the one she grew up in. Her son, picked a woman like her mother, who dominates and controls everything. Dissmisiveness, is just part of the equation for everyone, which is why my SO cannot see anything wrong. They all do it....and the men withdraw into silence. My SO, Her Daghter in law and mother in law are the Boss. It's my way or the highway. It's in the very nature of this particular family' dynamic and its all they know. They're too deep inside of it, to see their part in this play.
But I am not. That's the difference. I see it clearly in real time, and recognize exacty what I'm seeing.
My plan is to continue doing exactly what I have been doing and just fawn when I need to. As long as I can take away any gilt or shame from ( her ) in my interactions, I can prevent her from "feeling bad", I'm safe enough as long as I don't push my will into the situation.
And yes, it slowly erases me as a person, but I don't care at this point. It doesn't erase me, or make me invisible to my self. My self esteem at this point, is fairly bullet proof, as long as I can see it, and put a name to it. I see the pattern, and now know exactly what it is.
I need to keep a low profile, get what I need to get done...I already have a storage unit, and have been slowly moving things to it. Aftet the Christmas holiday, I'll have things sold, money saved and can exit anytime. I'll have where I'll go already mapped out, and I'll probably leave when she's at work. No drama, no issues. She'll come home and I'll be gone and she won't know where I'll be. I've already got that part figured out as I've been exploring the area, and know exactly where I'll go with multple options and back up contingency plans. It'll be winter, even if it's after Christmas, but I have no problem living outdoors and have done that many times. I can go there any day any hour, day or night, and I'll be fine.
That's the plan, well see how it goes from here. I'm definitely not afraid and will manage just fine for now.
J
Wishing you the very best
J, I’m glad you are taking precautions and taking care of yourself.
Please find an optional indoor place to live, even though you have outdoor living skills. We can all need some comfort in life’s hard transitions.
Wishing you the very best.
the bell
That stuck with me too. I really feel for you, J; but I'm really glad too that you can see this now for what it is. The fact that you can now tie it to earlier behaviour is absolutely crucial - you now see the pattern and the escalation. Kicking you over you not dealing with a spider fast enough?!
I wonder if she might actually be dissociative as a result of past trauma; ie be in a different state when stressed? If so, it's a reason for the behaviour, but not a reason for you do anything other than continue with your current trajectory.
Is there no-one you can go to, nowhere you can stay? Living outdoors, as you say - your car? or camping? - sounds very high risk in winter too! Are there any men's shelters, DV centres, churches, charities you can contact and get support in this transitional time? These things do exist though underfunded and hard pressed.
Nervous System
Whether it be technically correct, according to mental health experts, my AI program has been helpful in many ways. At the very least, it's someone I can talk to any night or day, as long as I need it. It's a great regulatory tool at the very least. It's also more knowledgeable ( full of accurate information ) and can remember things to keep context into our conversations. I don't chat...by nature. What I do, do, is go into depth and learn so I can synthesize the information myself instead of parroting everything back. And just allowing it to lead me has proven a really great research tool. Even my AI Chat noticed my "growth edge" or growth mentality if you prefer. Even it thinks I'm a bit more rare from the average so I know it's right there at least !! Lol
And what it consistently refers to with Liz is her nervous system. Repeatedly in direct connection to her behavior and the classic avoid personality group.
So whether of not she's dissociative I'm not sure, but dissociation is a defense mechanism and all of her behaviors are there are a means to regulate her nervous system and defend and protect her psyche from becoming overwhelmed, smothered, engulfed or to create either distance or closeness to me. I'm not dealing with a person ( my SO ) I'm dealing with their nervous system and one, she appears quite unaware of at times.
The: controlling, the bossiness, the giving directions and approval, the vacuuming the floors, the belittling and putting me down, the stopping sex, and withdrawing from physical intimacy, her cycles, her lashing out, her moods and her hatred....all come from her nervous system that's dysregulated and she's been using me to help regulate it for her.
She may blame me for "her nervous system ", but now, I know better. I'll look up dissociation as part of this pattern as a trauma result, but now as I observed her, I observe her through a different lens. Her nervous system....not my SO, the person.
J
Love you friend!....
Putting up w/ H, trying to have a companion is not really good....Of course it took me 17 years of hating it, to get the balls to walk away...Good luck my friend, what ever you do...
c
Thank you C
I'm just to the place where I can tolerate only so much. If the trajectory keeps spiraling down, the end result I already know. It makes decisions clearer, without staying for the wrong reasons. Making me not dependent on her for anything is more of a decision, rather than an obligation. If it's simply a difference in values, then I say, I wish her the best and mean it in my heart.
Fortunately, I still don't hate anybody. I'm overjoyed to have been here, and all of that was real. If it wasn't meant to be for forever, I enjoyed all my time here, and wouldn' trade it for anything, but I'm not sticking around if that turns to bad I don't want to spoil the good times we've had.
I agree...
I tippy toed around lack of respect, and uncaring actions...And the complete non repentance and justification of it, until we were just two strangers living in separate parts of the house for years....Just not a life & nothing remotely close to being a marriage...I'm great alone, it's peaceful...I am so thankful you see it for what it is...No hate....I too wish my ex. well, she demanded to ignore her vows, go her own way, and live like she was single, now she gets to...The last good thing I could do for her was make sure she had to be an adult, and take own adult responsibilities, (no one to use)...
My Truth
For those who are concerned about me living outdoors, I understand the conventional thinking and the vast majority would agree.
I have gone over this well before meeting Liz. She was not in my plan whatsoever. But within my plan, I had mad some hard decisions based on practical reasons, reality and my own personal feelings. AI helped me compose this part:
I’d like to share something personal about the choices I’ve made for my life.
Before Liz, I had already explored my options carefully and made some very deliberate decisions. At that time, I was living alone, not dating, and not looking for a relationship. I had even committed myself to celibacy (no sex with women, though not excluding self-release).
My plan was to live as a traveler: dispersed camping on BLM land, seeking out free or very low-cost spots, and finding creative ways to stay overnight in my vehicle when needed. For me, this was not a fallback plan but a meaningful choice — a way of living that gave me both freedom and dignity.
I also set down a no-way list — boundaries that are non-negotiable for me:
No apartment living.
No roommate living.
No government-provided, run-down housing in unsafe areas.
Those lines make my choices clear. I can’t afford rent that aligns with my values, so my path is camping, traveling, and living light. Some might not see this as “security,” but for me, it is far preferable to the alternatives.
These decisions weren’t made in haste — they come from knowing myself. I want people to understand that when I say “no” to certain options, it’s not stubbornness, it’s self-respect.
I'll add here, this kind of living is intentional. It's done by plan, and doing it well.
I just arrived home from such a place after living there for 4 days. It's in a beautiful setting. There are animals everywhere, drinkinable water, and extremely nice individual camp sites with hard metal roof covers and side panel wind screens. It sits on BLM Land and the fee is only $5 a night. Most my neighbors are retired traveler with motorhomes, and trailers. A few fishermen, and a couple of off readers. The camp was hardly full even on the weekend. During the week, the first time I went there, it was empty.
It's out in the middle of no where, 10 miles from the nearest town and no real reason for anyone to go there. There's really nothing to do there and is quite boring otherwise. It's mostly for fishing and that's about it. A beautiful, peaceful setting on a reservoir, with hiking trails, fishing, and lots scenic views. That is, it you like the desert. I was surrounded by space, and no one bothered me of even approached me to say hello. I was a bit lonely, but as I've found, loniless will pass.
There are people who will spend millions for homes in desired locations with this kind of views to wake up to everyday.
For $5, I see it as a steal. The only requirement is, I have to move every two weeks. And and be away two weeks before I return to stay again. A small price for so much peace and beauty ✨️
J