I am constantly resentful at my husband because he seems just downright lazy! This evening I went to the grocery store since we have a busy weekend ahead of us and I wanted to get a jump start .... I arrive back home with a trunk full of groceries, it's dark, there is construction of the curbs in front of our home so there is some ditches and gravel to navigate. I open the door, no one is around - kids are in bed, husband is in the basement - in his "man cave" - watching TV. I start bringing in the groceries, expecting that any minute he will walk up the stairs and start helping me .. but no..... By the time I bring in the last bag I am fuming.
I drive the car round back and park it in the garage. I go downstairs - sure enough there he is lying on the couch, in a daze, watching TV. I question him as to why he didn't come up to help me ... he stutters .. uhhh.. I didn't ... but then trails off - I am pretty sure he was going to say that he didn't hear me and then decided that was a very lame excuse. Why didn't you call me he says? Really? I have to ask you for help every single time? You can't take it upon yourself to think -- gee.. my wife is home, after being at work all day she goes to the grocery store, it's dark .. maybe I should help ..... does it cross his mind and he dismisses it because he's just too damned lazy to get off that couch? Or does he not think about helping .. I can't even begin to understand how a human being can be so self centered.
Thanks for listening.....
Lazy.......ADHD
Submitted by alex2355 on
I learned this a long time ago...even before ADHD was a part of my life. I'm the non-adder. YOU HAVE TO ASK FOR HELP!!!!! Stop hurting yourself. Yes, I WISH they could "SEE IT" like we do. They don't. If you have a cell phone...call him when you are comming in the driveway..."Honey, will you help me carry in the groceries" .....Thank You. OR Go in and ask him to help you. Instead of setting yourself up to be pissed off...Ask for help.
A long time ago, I read an article in Dear Abby....It was from a girl who's husband forgot her birthday. She was so hurt, angry, mad.....you name it. The advice that came from another reader said something like this....Girlfriend, you need to start 2 weeks before your birthday. You tell anyone and everyone...(including your husband) that your birthday is next Friday and you don't want them to forget. Tell them what you want and/or where you want to go. Keep reminding them. If they forget your birthday......NOW, you can be pissed. I've done it for the past 24 yrs...I love my birthday. (but now I have to put a $ amount limit....Mr. ADHD loves to buy big ticket things and then let me figure out how to pay for them. (We only figured out 1 1/2 yrs ago about his ADHD)
I have found myself "testing" my husband. Only to be let down. I had to stop because like you then I was pissed and my attitude was "annoyed" or I had the WTF cloud over my head. I wouldn't say anything and shut the door a little to hard. He would hear the door and think "Now what did I do wrong." I think they know they are wrong but only when it's to late. Then they turn it to your fault.
Learning about ADHD answers soooo many questions. Do yourself a favor......Think ahead...Ask for whatever you need or want him to do. It has made my life easier and I'm not hurt and angry all the time.
I agree! You have to get
Submitted by Asetamy on
I agree! You have to get over asking, though it IS frustrating!! I have found that if I expect my husband to "just remember" or "see" that I/we need something done, I am likely to experience anger and upsetness because of disappointment. I totally understand wanting a partner that will come to your aid when neccessary but the truth is, that is not likely to happen with someone who has ADHD/ADD. I also have to adjust how I would like things done because he does them differently than me. I would rather ask and have him do things his way and get them done than play the expectation game with him, which I already know the outcome anyway. Now we are working out the when I request something of him, he being able to put some priority into it and accomplish it. We have our bad weeks but it's the little steps that you have to concentrate on, otherwise it can be overwhelming- for both people!
NonADD brain: I think I hear
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
NonADD brain: I think I hear something. Yes I think that's my wife upstairs. She was going to pick up a few things after work. I should go upstairs and help her, its dark outside.
ADD brain: ... this TV ad sucks ... is that a noise? ... naw, must be hearing things, I always hear things, I need to get my hearing checked. This TV ad sucks too. I should also get my eyes checked. Oh and when was the last time I went to the dentist? The wife would know. hey, maybe that sound upstairs is the wife? Hmmmmm ... yup sounds like her. What is she doing up there? She's home later than usual, I wonder why (having forgotten about shopping completely) ... well, if she doesn't come down to say hai by the next commericial break I'll go up and say hi. I wonder if it dark out yet? Man, how long have I been on this couch? Long enough for it to get dark? Didn't I do this yesterday too? I keep promising myself I'll not spend so long on the couch everyday and then I do ... Okay I should get up now ... Oh I hate this commerical too ... wait, wasn't I going to get up during the commerical break and say hi to the wife? What is she doing up there anyways? Get up you lazy ass! Where's the remote, I should turn the TV off. Uh oh, is that doors slamming? Is she mad? I wonder why? Maybe I'll stay here and not get in her way. Sure, if she needs me she knows where to find me. Maybe she had a bad day at work? I don't think I did anything wrong today, did I? Maybe we can cuddle on the couch? This TV ad is stupid too, who buys this stuff anyways? Why would I need to whiten my teeth? Oh, here she comes. Hi hun! Huh? Groceries? Dark? What? Uhhhh ... ummm. Damn I was supposed to do somehting wasn't I? I didn't ... nevermind ... I suck again. Wow she's mad. Maybe I'll hide down here a little longer ... this TV ad sucks.
OMG! This is exactly it.
Submitted by newfdogswife on
OMG! This is exactly it.
ADD Response (or Lack Thereof)
Submitted by Hoping4More on
Non-ADD Response to hearing "Honey, would you please help me bring in the groceries?": . . . "Sure honey." Goes upstairs to help.
ADD Response to hearing "Honey, would you please help me bring in the groceries?": . . . Silence, or "OK" and then silence, as her brain is processing . . . Oh, my wife needs help with the groceries. I'll go as soon as I'm done with this game on my iPhone (that she is playing while watching TV). . . This show is kind of boring. Maybe I should change the channel. . . Oh, damn - that was a stupid move. I should have played a different card. I hate it when I move the wrong card. I can do better than that. . . Oh, sounds like she's come in. I guess she was OK after all. . . Then hears "Honey?" Responds "I'm COMING!" . . . . Maybe I should go help. . . Oh look - a commercial for the new iPad! That looks so cool! I really want one of those. . . I should check what the latest Podcasts are saying about them. . . I don't understand why people are criticizing the iPad. It isn't meant to be a fully eiqupped computer! It's meant to be a hand held device with a bigger screen than an iPhone. It's so cool. . . People are so stupid sometimes. . . I can't wait to get one, though. I wonder when the price will come down. . . And the new iPhone looks really cool! . . . Damn . . lost that game. Maybe I'll do better on the next one. . . Oh, I hear the TV upstairs. She must be done putting away the groceries. I guess she didn't need my help after all. I'll go upstairs after this game. . . . Sometime later, when wife says in an aggrivated tone "I thought you were going to come upstairs to help me with the groceries," answers "What? I SAID I was going to help. I was PLANNING to come help. You were just too fast. Why didn't you wait for me? You always want everything in YOUR time!"
NonADD Brain while waiting for response: Hmm . . no answer. . . I wonder if she heard me? . . .She must have heard me, I spoke loudly. . . . But maybe not. . . Or maybe she heard me, but is having difficulty stopping what she is doing so she can respond . . . damn, I really need help here . . . how long should I wait before saying something . . . I feel like I am always waiting for her . . . . I don't want to make her feel guilty, but I really need help. . . . I wish I knew how to say something without her feeling insulted . . . Ok, I think I waited long enough . . . "Honey?" Hears response "I'm COMING!" . . . Crap, she sounds annoyed that I said something . . . but I really need help . . . now what do I do ? . . . .I know she's not going to come up for awhile . . . this is really frustrating . . . I'm tired and I just want to get these groceries put away . . . I guess I'm just going to have to do it myself . . . again . . .why do I even bother asking . . . it just frustrates me that she doesn't respond . . . she KNOWs this frustrates me . . . I have told her so many times now . . . this is SO tiresome . . . Oh, well, I guess I just have to live with it . . . .I'm done now . . . . so much for getting help when I ask for it . . . I guess I'll watch some TV . . . I wonder if she'll ever come up . . . does she even realize I'm pissed? . . . . Sometime later when she does come up, says in an aggrivated tone: "I thought you were going to come upstairs to help me with the groceries" . . . to which she hears "What? I SAID I was going to help. I was PLANNING to come. You are just too fast. Whay didn't you wait? You always want everything in YOUR time!" NonADD brain continued: . . . What? SHE doesn't do something and it's my fault? . . . . And she yells at me for it . . . .and insults me? . . . That's so not fair!
I am not sure if I have read
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
I am not sure if I have read it anywhere but is you wife getting any treament for her ADD Hoping? If this is her manner then she must but unmedicated and not going to any sort of coaching and therapy.
Reply
Submitted by Hoping4More on
*hug* You may have to lay off
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
I Agree
Submitted by Hoping4More on
It takes a long time and change of mind
Submitted by MelissaOrlov on
Thank You
Submitted by Trish 01 on
Thank you for putting in writing how my husband (a recently diagnosed ADDer) has told me his brain is working! He has told me hundreds of times that he has all of these random thoughts going on in his head constantly. Yet, he can't seem to get up off the couch and do anything. Or he will start several things at once and never get anything done.
It is helpful to me as a very frustrated non-ADD wife (with a type A personality) to read what he has been trying to tell me. Thank you!!
no numbers to connect the dots
Submitted by arwen on
Alex and MIss B have given you great responses already. Let me add another consideration.
People with ADHD have memory issues. Unless they have been given specific training, they typically have trouble storing, organizing and retrieving ordinary information (i.e. information that doesn't seem fascinating or critical). And unless they are hyperfocused or in a brainstorming mode, it's very very difficult for them to connect any existing information together.
Now, take the situation in the post. Your spouse would have had to *remember* without any reminder that:
Let's assume that he did manage to notice it was dark and that you were home (which may very well have happened it a sort of random-though-passing-through manner that MIss B describes so well, that's classic ADHD brain functioning)
Now, his brain would need to *organize* this information in a *meaningful way* and draw some conclusions:
Suppose he had somehow been able to remember the basic information but wasn't able to organize it meaningfully, which can be so difficult for ADHDers to do, e.g.
OR even
Neither of these would have been reasons to get right up off the couch! And consider that if he wasn't able to remember *all* the basic items, the conclusions would probably be even more skewed from what you or I would normally expect.
It's a lot like the connect-the-dots pictures we've all played with as kids -- except in the coloring books, the dots have numbers. What kind of picture would we end up with if the numbers weren't there? Sometimes we can figure the picture out because there are many dots, or they are strategically spaced, but what if that's not the case?
So, add to the basic memory storage/retrieval and meaningful information organization problems the fact that many ADHDers have learned (with good reason!) to distrust their conclusions, because of their life history with bad memory retrieval causing them to reach wrong conclusions way too often.
And then pile on top of that the fact that these ADHDers are reluctant to act on any of their conclusions, because of how mad people tend to get when the ADHDers do something wrong based on those wrong conclusions.
Ask yourself what your reaction would have been to your husband if he had come up from the man-cave, offering to put in a temporary light in the curb work area for your nighttime shopping. If you are like me, you probably would have looked at him like he was nuts, and been annoyed with him for thinking about something so irrelevant instead of offering to help with the groceries. (Which, incidentally, would have reinforced his belief that his conclusions are no good, so he dare not act on them.)
Now, this doesn't mean there isn't *any* element of self-centeredness or laziness at work here. This decision-making paradigm that I've just described can easily encourage any inherent or latent tendency towards laziness or self-centeredness. And obviously, I have no way of knowing to what extent that may be true of your partner. My point is that, his behavior could really very easily be his ADHD as much or more than anything else. In order to make that determination, you will need to better understand how your partner's memory and decision-making processes work.
I've found that because of all this, I have had to ask my spouse for help if I want it. But here's an interesting side-effect: when I began asking for help, it gave him more "dots" of information, and something of a pattern for organizing them better. It *helped him learn* when I wanted help and when I didn't. As a result, I now have to ask for help a lot less often, and he *offers* his help every time I come home with shopping, because now he has confidence that his conclusion that I probably need it is right.
I hope something here helps!
"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore
Asking for help
Submitted by Hoping4More on
Asking for help sounds so simple. But I find that "simple" requests like that are fraught with difficulty. When I need help in the moment and ask for it, I risk being ignored, being snapped at because my request is interpreted as implying my wife is being lazy when she should be helping me, or told "OK" only for that help not to materialize. If the help does not materialize and I do it myself, I also risk getting snapped at - "I SAID I was going to help. You want everything in YOUR time.". If I wait and nothing happens and I ask again, I risk getting snapped at with the same words. I understand about people with ADHD not acting because they don't trust their conclusions, and they don't want to risk causing a spouse's annoyance or comment that makes them feel bad for coming to the wrong conclusion. Well, I think I am suffering from a similar malady. I am so unsure of when I will be snapped at for something that seems so harmless to me, that I almost would rather not say anything. It's less painful to just do it myself than ask, only to be disappointed, or worse, snapped at or insulted. I am so careful not to criticize my wife, and yet I am criticized by her for all kinds of things. Sorry - I'm just dumping because we've had a difficult morning. But for me, "just ask" does not seem to be a solution.
how matters
Submitted by arwen on
As with just about everything else with ADHD, it seems, *how* you ask for help matters. I have no idea how you are asking, or how often, or under what conditions. Here's what I've learned from my experience.
Your partner does not know you need help now unless you say so. Your partner does not know what you need help with unless you say so. Your partner does not know you don't believe she's lazy unless you say so. Your partner does not know that you don't want to interrupt certain things she may be doing unless you say so. Your partner does not know that you can't put off what you're doing until later unless you say so. And so on.
Sometimes when I come home with groceries I don't want/need help. Sometimes I can't bring it all in one trip and I do want help. Sometimes I have a lot of frozen or refrigerator items and want the help right away; sometimes I don't. Sometimes the need is urgent (e.g. melting ice cream on a hot day) and I want him to interrupt what's he's doing. Sometimes the need is less urgent and I'd rather he kept doing whatever he's in the middle of. These are things I need to communicate to him.
And I need to be as respectiful of his time and efforts as I would like him, and expect him, to be of mine. So, if I'm going to interrupt him, I apologize for it. If I need the help urgently, it's much more likely that I will be interrupting him, so it's likely I need to apologize -- so likely that I just may as well do it routinely.
And because I know I can't just trust to his good intentions, I make sure that he responds with more than just words before moving on from my request. He gets up to help, or at the very least we make eye contact and he nods. These things reinforce the discussion and understanding.
So, when I "just ask" for help with the groceries, it might go something like this: "Honey, I'm real sorry if I'm interrupting you, but I have melting ice cream in the car -- it's so hot out today -- and I also really need a bathroom right now -- so I'm afraid I have to ask you to go out to the car RIGHT NOW and bring the ice cream and the other frozen foods in. The frozen foods are all on the passenger seat in the front of the car, so just bring all those bags in, please? I would really appreciate it." This gives him the specific info he needs to know in order to act appropriately -- and it tells him I respect his time and appreciate his help. Since I don't ask for help all the time with everything, he knows that I wouldn't be asking for this specific help, right now, unless I really needed this specific help, right now. And if at all possible, I don't just call to him -- I go to where he is, and I wait until he gets up and start moving to act.
At other times, when my need isn't urgent but I could really use the help, the conversation might be more along the lines of: "Dear, I hope I'm not interrupting anything important, but I've got a lot of groceries out in the car and I could really use some help." He might say, "sure, give me a minute" (in which case I prepare to give him two or three or even four minutes before I would return and repeat my request), or "sorry, I'm in the middle of something here" (in which case I would say, "OK, nevermind", or "OK, when you're done, please come help"). And I *never ever ever ever* accept a mere "OK". As I tell him every time he offers only that, I don't know what "OK" means. (Does "OK" mean, I'll come now? Does it mean, I'll come in a while? Does it mean, I heard you? Does it mean, I understand but don't plan to help? "OK" is way, way too vague. If I get an answer of "OK", I always say, "I'm really sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean with 'OK'.")
If you are doing all this, and your partner is still snapping at you, it sounds like she's being pretty unreasonable and you may need to have some serious sessions with a counselor together to discuss it.
"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus Dumbledore
I would like to second
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
What Does OK Mean
Submitted by Hoping4More on
How about re-stating rather
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
"Re-stating" would backfire with my spouse
Submitted by arwen on
Even though my husband would want me to believe that "OK" means "Yes, I'll help", because that puts him in the most favorable light, it would really rub him the wrong way if I said "Thank you for agreeing to help me with the groceries in 5 minutes". He would argue that he didn't agree to any timeframe, and it would make him feel like I was backing him into a corner. Thati's why I always avoid putting any interpretation on "OK", and instead ask him what he means. (And I try really hard not to ask in a challenging or exasperated way, but with sincere confusion and a true desire to understand.)
The whole issue of "help" has been a years-long debate between my spouse and me. It's my view that the person who needs the help defines what help is needed. I don't scorn another's ideas or other help in addition to what I need, but in the end, if I need help, I'm the one who knows what I need. My husband always says he likes to be helpful, it makes him feel good to help, but he often "helped" in ways that did not meet my need, and then was groused when I only mildly appreciative (it took away from his feeling pleased with himself). It took a lot of conversation for him to understand that when his actions didn't help me, it didn't matter how helpful he *felt* (or wanted to feel!), the *reality* was that he still hadn't helped me. My view was that if he really wanted to help, we should work on communicating better about the needs and help, so that we could achieve our goals -- his view was that he didn't see why he should have to do so much work if he was being such a good guy and helping. What his perspective amounted to was that I should support his fantasy (not that he thought of it that way!) because it would be easier for him if I would just accept whatever help he offered without qualification or constraint and not "let on" that my need for help hadn't been met. Ironically, this is what his mom does with his dad, and he thinks his dad is being ridiculous. But he couldn't see it in himself.
These are the reasons why we've migrated to requiring very clear statements of the help wanted, and requiring clear statements of the help being offered. I'm not saying that other methods won't work for other people! But they won't work for us . . .
"It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be." Albus DumbledoreSorry when I said re-statment
Submitted by Miss Behaven on
Sorry when I said re-statment I meant that you are re-stating what your question had been. As you had posted about being very clear when you ask.
"Honey can you help me out with the groceries in 5 minutes?" ... "Okay" ... "Great, thanks for agreeing to help me in 5 mintues"
It is something our family therapist had us do and it works well enough for us and with the kids. But of course everyone is different.
You're singing her tune!
Submitted by SheThinksImLazy on
Check out my User Name to see why your post hits a cord with me.
Thank you for venting. Your comments validate my wife's frustration, and my own in an indirect way, by showing me we're not unique - that others are going through the exact same problems!
The answer to your question is quite easy, ADHD plays a HUGE role! Since your question implies it must be one or the other, ADHD is the one!
(BTW, I prefer B&W logic. That's the way my mind works. Even when the answer is both black and white, I'm more comfortable with it than those annoying shades of grey that seem to want to corrupt everything, as with arwin's painful "can easily encourage any inherent or latent tendency towards laziness". Ouch.)
I'll bet this answer doesn't satisfy you. Would the opposite? If folks here all agreed that he was "just lazy", would you print out the thread, shove it under his lazy-ass nose and say, "See!"? OK, That might actually be nice for a minute or two... for you... but really, what would that change? He might even be shamed into trying hard for a day or a week, which would just PROVE he can do it if he tries.
If he were "just lazy" yelling at him and being cold to him is not going to change anything. It just assures the resentment is two-way and seemingly permanent.
If your marriage is like mine, he truly cares about you and wants to please you as much as when you were dating and he vacuumed his car for each date. But, like my wife, you wear your frustration on your sleave. It is a feature of your marriage. It is ugly. You know it. But he's the one not acting, not caring. He CAUSES your frustration. This not some damn "disorder" or chemical imbalance or something. It has to be SOMEONE's fault! It is HIS.
[I got off on a negative tangent there... Let's recenter.]
This line of thought is not helpful. Understandable, but not helpful. The better, more actionable, more meaningful answer is ADHD. If you could just adjust how you ask for favors, remind without resentment, do all the planning, most of the chores, and let him fail repeatedly without consequence...
[This is not going well...I had a positive ending in my head when I started. Damn!]
Good luck to both of you. Kiss him for no reason if you can.
- SheThinks...