I’ve come to an understanding that I have been significantly impacted by my ex’s RSD. I expect to offend all the time, about anything. I’m become quiet and withdrawn and I often apologise or worry if something I said might have hurt anyone, or I preface simple things with please-don’t-take-this-the-wrong-way padding, eg: ‘this is in no way a criticism but does anyone know where the scissors are?’
I realise I have internalised the flip side of the RSD coin: his response to me was constantly ‘you are always hurting me’; his narrative was that I am critical, negative and cruel. And I have come to believe that, on some level. I’ve come to believe what he told me I was, with his flinching and defensiveness and prickliness and snapping, and with his statements too. One of the lowest points of my life was him telling our therapist I am cruel.
My psyche has been moulded by his RSD.
I’m working my way back to an acceptance of myself as a reasonably decent person. I’ve looked online, and have talked with friends (whose shock at this depiction of me and reassurance has been so helpful) but most resources seem to be about how hard RSD is for the person with it. Does anyone have any experiences or resources useful for the person who has been harmed by being on the receiving end of RSD?
Comments
Operant Conditioning, That's the Mechanism
Behavior that reduces distress gets reinforced.
Behavior that increases distress gets suppressed.
No beliefs required.
No intent required.
No pathology required.
Just a nervous system learning what keeps the room calm.
That's you Honesty.....and me as well.
J
that’s a useful concept
I hadn’t heard of that before; thank you
looking into it
Yes, that makes sense - but what he conditioned me into was saying nothing - because me saying anything was a risk of him reminding me again of what a horrible person I was.
That's the Pattern
I learned it as a child, so I was already good and keeping my mouth shut. And then again later: silence = safety.
And no, it's not a satisfying or fullinging way to live. Absolutely not!
In real time, 1 week ago, here's a perfect example. It's a lose/lose nobody wins scenario.
I promised as long as I was still here, I'd continue to help out when I became needed. The dishwasher started leaking and a new one is needed. I'm completely out of the loop anymore, but I offered my services one last time simply because I can. I've done it before ( removing a dishwasher from under the counter.
My SO started in the usual evaluation and monitoring the whole process and stopped me at one point about what to do with the return hose. I told her to get rid of it, it's 20 years and the new washer comes with its own ( when it arrives ).
She immediately called her son and I walked out of the room because listening to them trying to figure out what to do was becoming painful ( after I just told her what to do ) After about 20 minutes of talking it over, my SO says "put the old hose back on. I basically said, whatever...it's not my problem anymore.
I won't need to continue with this back story, there's enough there to give you the idea....only to say, in order to do what "they" decided to do...required a convoluted series of steps, snaking the hose through cabinets into the disposal. Completely unnecessary, and I had to lay on my back and work upside-down with my arms twisted is unorthodox positions. It's was a real pain to do.
Days later, I was asked to get the space ready for the new dishwasher. Here's where all the fun begins. I'm standing there staring at the hose. The hose is in my way. I look at my SO.
Me: Hose in way
Her: Well, can't you get it out of there?
Me: Yes. ( Pause )
Her: Well?
Me: In order to get it out of there, I have to undo all the things you and your son decided to have me do. I told you the right way to proceed and you guys had a better idea.
Her: blank . Well. can you do it?
Me: Yes, I can do, but I'm not going to.
Her: Why not?
Me: Because I'm not getting back down there on my back and wrench it all out of place when I told you the right answer...and none of this would be happening and I'd be done by now. If you want it done....either you do it, or call your son to come do it. He appears to be an expert on the matter without even seeing it over the phone.
I added something about....my offer was to do it once...not twice.
She started going off on me and I got up off my knees and without a word, was walking right by her on my way anywhere but there.
As I walked by, like a snake bite, she hit me with her open hand smack in the face.
The most important lesson I learned from this interaction was not about the strike. The strike was nothing, childsplay, once again. It was traumatic, I wasn't afraid, it startled me a little but none of is anything that gets me riled or upset....even though, I did ( for the first time ever in our relationship ) resorted to charactor assassination....with a select few words.
I'm no Saint, but when someone actually hits me in the face ( real contact ) in my book, verbal rebuke is at the very least, understandable. That's my only defense.
The incident ended and didn't escalate but that's when I really new my safety was dubious from then on.
The violations on my part.
-Non compliance. I said no, in no uncertain terms.
-proved "them" wrong. ...by doing nothing.
Whats that saying? Give them enough rope and.....
So, I exposed their "wrongness" by doing exactly what they said to do. Now, the physical manifestation or their error is now undeniable.
And what made matters worse is...now it's "two" against one.....fear of being wrong = image/self distortion and "looking dumb" ( wrong ) became fully realized.
And the hit? That hit, was not meant to do bodily harm. That hit was a full on "how dare you make us look like fools "
Really? I did all of that by doing nothing but say. "No" ?
Final note: who's this we? you got a turd in your pocket ? ( that's what the Bison says )
J
J, she’s disrespectful
It’s really bad to use a person for dirty work but ignore their expertise, then try to dominate them with violence when they protest.
J, please move out. This is not a healthy environment. Don’t let yourself be treated like this.
this is appalling
it’s utterly appalling behaviour from her. If I had someone as helpful as you in my life, I’d be so grateful. I’ve always been the one with my head under the sink or under the bonnet (hood) whenever anything goes wrong. I cannot understand her. It’s just awful.
And I Feel Appauled Honestly
With feelings of great consternation, anxiety and dismay, "typically at something unexpected."
This entire event had nothing to do with plumbing, how I was doing it, or ANYTHING to do with anything happening at that present moment. I was in a perfectly fine mood and I did offer, I wasn't being coerced into doing it but It should have taken 15 minutes ( had I been left alone ) Instead, it turned into a major event that caused a huge upheava so I'm right there with you trying to understand!
This is what I know so far which I can verify because I've lived it. I have no reason to vilify or judge my SO in anyway so these descriptions are more based on factual ( observed ) evidence. Without the long explanation.
My SO : State Based nervous system. She exists in fragments or "self States" which are primarily defensive mechanism. These are NOT multiple personalities, not moods, and more like "temperaments" combined with a role or job duty.....the closest I can come to understand it myself.
So, during this appalling entire episode, there was : "The Evaluator"...and that's what that "state" ( or mode ) does. It controls through evaluation. It criticizes, gives unsolicited help, asks "why are you doing it that way?", and takes on the superior role gives orders and bosses, makes corrections and is questiong everything. That's what comes out ( gets externalized ) .....
In reality, it's a self regulation method in the form of a defense mechanism....what you see is "The Evaluater".
Do I need an Evaluater to do this job? No. That's the heart of this issue. ( control )
With the Evaluater comes the Monitor. The Monitor just stands there and watches you and gives you that "being watched feeling" that makes you want to say " uh, isn't there something else you could be doing right now? "
But the one that is truly appalling is the "Enforcer" because with the Enforcer comes contempt. That's the "state" that hit me...the Enforcer. The Enforcers job is to regain control as quickly as possible because the situation has just lost control ( for my ex so ) .
In review....I said nope, not going to do it twice on your mistake....see ya. As I'm walking away. That's the critical piece in this event.
I wasn't challenging
I wasn't arguing
I wasn' fighting
I was calling her names or even getting angry......
I was "refusing" and in the process of walking away from her.
And that's when the "flip state" occurred and out came the Enforcer ( state ).
In that brief moment there's no: empathy, compassion or reason happening. The Enforcers role or job is clear: regain control, punish as nessesary.
If you really want to understand, this is as close as I can get:
-it's nervous system reaction. ( reflex )
-it's not intentional because, she can' help this fragmented aspect of herself that appears as these separate states instead of one fully integrated person, you get "parts" at one time.
-it's not a pathology or diagnosis of a disorder ( most likely not )
-she's not bad, evil, or any moral label you could name ....because it's not a moral issue.
-In order to fix this, she'd have to go do the work herself and she's unwilling to do it.
The saddest part for me, and I'm still grieving it and probably will for quite a while.
That beautiful, wonderful women I met on the phone and carried on for 9 months getting to know was very real. None of that was faked in anyway. And at times, I was allowed to see another "state" of hers that most people rarely see. I call it "teenSO" because that's about where here trauma and emotional level converged and never grew much past that. That's where her capacity has a finite limit. And I only got to see that for a limited time. There was warmth, thoughtfulness, kindness and empathy ( although somewhat compromised ) depending on her "state" in the moment.....that's the key....."in the moment"....not most of the time however...
What I'm getting now is the "contained version" of these other states. They completely overshadow the " lovely teen" state that I adored.....and it's likely I won't be seeing her ever again.
It's important for me ( only ??? ) that I maintain a separation from the early part ( teenSO....open, available, accessible sexually...all the above. And retain it in my mind as a time capsule that has beginning and end. For me especially, that held many many wonderful and memorable moments I never want to forget.
BUT.....with no illusions what so ever...that was the past....the more recent, and current status or "things" means living with these defense states 24/7. I really don't care for them at all, as they kind act like party crashers who ruin the entire party.
Along with my nervous system who can't be around them either. It's a tragedy that had the best of times and the worst of times and it simply will never be that way again.
I'm thankful for the good parts, but have tp say goodbye to the rest for my own sake and sanity.
If you can understand what I just said....you're doing better than me because it took me a very long time in figuring it out!!
J
Yes Honestly, that's exactly what happens
I learned a very long time ago ( as a child )
Silence = safety. It's also a signal that's there's something horribly wrong.... when communication ( speaking ) stops, nothing is all that's left.
what shade of doom
I remember waking everyday and immediately projecting a 'RSD Forecast' for my ADHD wife to imagine all the scheduled activities and current mental state and what I might expect to happen. I was never sure what shade of doom I would get.
Reading the Weather - ( my final day here )
I'm still not exactly sure where the lines of RSD begin and end for myself. It's been proposed that I may not suffer from it, to the extent I hear about others. There are reasons for that, which I'm beginning to understand better.
Ironically, I actually have a keen sense of weather patterns outside. I never really thought about, but I can predict the weather by reading tye signs...like Smelling rain coming, noticing cloud patterns and looking at directions from where it's coming from. My senses in this way, are incredibly accurate without any other means.
And sense of impending doom is one I've felt plenty of times. I try to listen to these now, instead of dismissing them. Asking "what's wrong?" only lead to trouble in my experience. So instead, I've tried to be a weather forecaster...to get a better sense of what I'll be dealing with.
You mentioned "state" and that's exactly what I just experienced. With my ex partner.....her state was determined by becoming activated....which means, the defense mechanisms are in play and there's a shift in states.
When I notice the "shift"... there's a storm on the horizon. Trying to have a conversation with a storm...is not the time to do it.
Later....as I've found ( even 10-15 minutes ) I've noted....is about the time the storm has passed and she's shifted back to a much more pleasant person to deal with.
So I adopted that pattern of behavior myself.
Being prepared isn't wondering if it will stop raining...and not rain again. Just like the real weather outside...it's always going to rain. Predicting it will....means learning to predict it better.
From experience, that's how I do it.
J
you say ‘remember’
If you are separated, how would you contrast your state now - are you entirely better? Or did she somehow learn to manage her RSD, or did you begin to tune it out? It was clearly a huge drain on you.
Now things are calm
In my case we got divorced at her demand after 26.5 years. Now things are calm and normal reality prevails.
Honestly
I'm out now, as of last night after dark. My first night out, and planned overnight stay at a Truck Stop. You say you're a sponge for alternative ideas on this topic, and I have a few to share since so many things seem to overlap it really does get confusing. I'll try to narrow it down and not make it too long...the distilled version of what I know so far....in an attempt to put myself into both positions since my ex is also ADHD. ( and myself of course ).
You might think a Truck Stop sounds....well, not a great place to land. On the contrary, it's a logistical gold mine in an urban setting. Just to name a few benefits:
Safety in numbers, like people doing like things, well lit, patrolled, hot food, showers , laundry, a Danny's ( actually sit down restaurant ), My actual in system Immediate care facility across the street, traveling supplies, lounge with TV ( not interested but ) and almost everyone here is trying to sleep...by the hundreds......So in essense, this was my choice out a many to make. As I lay here now....after a great night sleep, my system has finally relaxed. And I actually went from feeling heartbroken to relief...on the way here. That part is telling.
Relief....from control. I felt it leaving my body.
What control? Her "state determined shifts" Speciffically ( my names )
-the Evaluator / watcher .....feeling as though your on surveillance all the time. Control of "performance": doing it wrong, not good enough and the questions: " why did you do it that way?" These aren't questions...they're designed to make you question yourself. My answer..almost akways....IDK? Because I don't know???
For me, this falls more under the category of "highly annoying" ...instead of rejection. This is an accurate marker for me.
-The Evaluater / Judge. "You're wrong, you shouldn't do that, that's not how it's done, that's what they use to think, you're ( expert whom ever ) doesn't know what they're talking about. "
Bottom line: you're wrong...not me. I think this is splitting...if I'm not mistaken? Like my breakup line: "I love you...but I'm not in love with you." .......My reply ( this I remember well ). "That's not how adults breakup up with each other....unless you're 16 years old!" Still not feeling rejected, more insulted and disrespected than anything else.
-Enforcer with externalized Contempt overlay. This is the one....you don't do anything with. Nothing you say will do any good at this point. This is the one who hits....says nasty things, and immediately diminishes you, criticizes you, belittles you and puts you down. Down "below" her...in status, rank, and role. She's a hurtful one.....
Again, my response or feelings aren't rejection....my trained embodied response is: silence, going small, becoming "unseen" and invisible. It's a survival response. I do it instantly as a reflex. I don't have to think about it. I just know it works. It controls through dominance...it's the past card to be played when the others are working. It also serves as "a lesson to all who cross my invisible line."
Non compliance....is the invisible line. In my mind....not abiding....is a choice. Non compliance ....comes from not abiding....when my own boundary just got destroyed. Still no rejection....self respect and integrity just became activated. Bison energy. "I don't dance." *side note. Bison evergy is neither aggressive nor passive. It's just standing your ground.....neutral....and not saying anything. That's not shrinking or becoming invisible. You become a rock...that the water flows around. And still....not feeling rejected yet.
I felt the full brunt of rejection, when I became "unchosen". This happened over time....I was deeply hurt....but that again passed. The key here is....it was cognitive not a reflex to perceived rejection. It was real rejection....and it really hurt...in real time...in the moment. My body felt it, my mind followed shortly after.
The drain in all of this came from being hypervigillant and having to stay there until the threat was no longer there.
Here's what I've come to learn about myself and why ( possibly ) RSD is not my pattern.
I'm now calling myself "earned secure - with trauma adaptive response....with anxious leanings....but not truly anxious either."
I....
“Track changes in others to stay safe.”
That becomes:
-Rapid meaning-making
-Early warning detection
-Strong gut signals
-High empathy
-Pattern recognition
This is trauma-trained perception, not dysregulation. IIt’s a hyper-attuned relational radar that developed because:
My early system required vigilance
Safety depended on reading emotional shifts
You had to anticipate disapproval, not react to it.
And so I did. This was how I protected myself....before I knew I needed protection.
This wasn't because I felt rejected...it's because I didn't feel safe.
And unfortunately....with echoes of my own family...I walked into another situation where power, rank and authority were the boss.
That simply doesn't work for me. I don't feel rejected even now.....I feel free.
Sitting in a Truck Stop...and enjoying a hot breakfast, and cold drink, it's freezing outside....and I surrounded by safety.
I feel safe now. Nows the time to relax and let that soak in for a while. The grief I felt as I drove away has turned into peace and calm.
My nervous system...is standing down.
J
Oh...one more thing.
The truck stop is free...and free, is a very good price indeed.
J
Slight Variation
What I just experienced had a subtly different trigger. Instead of being ( or feeling ) rejected, being "wrong" was the trigger...and anger usually followed.
yes that too
I remember that of your situation, J - the anger- I think and hope that you’re out too now? It always did sound so hard.
It’s a bit of a misnomer, I think, ‘Rejection’ - the problem with my ex seemed to be anything that was ‘not praise’ was ‘criticism’ and ‘praise’ was itself ‘insufficient priase’. So there’s something about ‘wrongness’ here too; he has to be right and had to be seen to be right and had to be celebrated for it. Despite being very bad at most practical things and under-informed and opinionated about many others. I have had to tiptoe round and clear up so many of his mistakes and yet he could not be wrong. He has assumed ill-informed authority about so many things; he’s (incorrectly) corrected me so many times in areas he is certainly less informed than me - for example aspects of my profession. In conversation I’d work out an answer to something we were trying to figure out, and his response would be ‘maybe’. Because he was still instinctively reluctant to believe I could be correct.
So wrongness deffo an issue with him too; but never the levels of unreasonable anger that you had to face, J.
I'm Still Here But Not For Long
It's really become unsafe for me to stay here, even though, the two of us have arrived at a working cohabitation that's been civil and productive as long as I'm moving towards finally exiting. Thank you for asking though!
I've been working on trying to figure myself out and whether I have RSD or not? Working with AI to help generate ideas I think I have a theory.
I may have had RSD at one time, but it transformed into something else? This is what gets interesting. ( just a hypothesis really )
"Final synthesis:
RSD = pain from perceived rejection
Fear of being wrong = pain from perceived exposure
My pain = pain from loss of coherence
These overlap in effects, but not in cause.
That’s why RSD explanations feel partially right but ultimately unsatisfying."
So what mine transformed into is called
"Epistemic Coherence Orientation or a "Coherence Anchored Nervous System"
A bunch a big words that means different nervous systems have different orientations, and mine organizes around Coherence.
Loss of coherence is like losing my rudder to steer my boat. It's also a loss of connections which is really at the bottom of everything for me. You could dig a bit deeper and probably hit abandonment in there too, but not as the predominant pain or loss. Connection is the big one for me...less rejection, or having to being right, so as it appears, RSD is not a big player in me...or really at all? Loss of coherence? That's another thing entirely.
But looking above at the final synthesis:
Fear of being wrong = pain from perceived exposure ( or image/self distortion if you will?? )
And then : RSD = pain from perceived fear of rejection
So in each, the pattern is very similar if not the same but what changes is:
-nervous system orientation
-the pain, and where it comes from.
So what's the Fear?
Rejection, abandonment, appearing "not smart" or having to prove that you are from that same fear, and fear of ultimately being disconnected or...losing the one you already have, not being lovable, feeling discarded, or "not being chosen".
I think these all have overlapps even though they're unique in their own way.
Your ex, possibly sounds closer to my SO because "image" from the outside is a big one for her...which makes her more "performative" by nature...what's on the surface is priority.
Which is simply so not me. If you look at just these differences.... the gap between us is pretty huge. She organizes around dominanc, coercio and control, which ultimately leads you to...."compliance or loss of control" And loss of controll for my SO meant danger....not safe ( for her ).
This is a delemna...there's no fix for. When she feels safe....I feel unsafe...and that was especially a problem for me.
And thank you for saying also. At times, it was very hard, but knowing why for me gives me back the coherence that was missing. I feel a sense of peace from that alone.
J
Time
So far the passing of time has straightened me out the most.
The ADD/RSD husband and the neurodivergent relatives have given me huge social stress. I’ve hurt from tiny friction. I tried to create peace and safety in every interaction, exhausting myself to accommodate others. At the same time I was constantly angry about my boundaries being violated by other’s thoughtlessness.
Yesterday a relative died. Sadly I haven’t seen their family for more than a decade. I have a major issue with relatives, closer to them than I, who are shy of gatherings. To see the deceased’s immediate family I would’ve needed to circumvent the shy people’s lacking initiative, taking the hostess role at my house but including the shy (and critical) ones, which is such a trigger now I haven’t been able to do it. I feel like shit interacting with other people under their gaze.
Time - two years now - has allowed for some healing of the ADD/RSD wound. Anger has subsided. I still have violent dreams about my ex husband at night, but emotions have otherwise transformed into mostly soft grief. Time has also made me better at handling the family issues. It’s taken time for everything to sift through my mind, many months to experience things a little differently. They tell me this is normal. We believe we can change our brains instantly, like with a train of thought. But it’s a slow process.
I’m still ashamed at my frustration with family members, and how I’ve complained and whined and been upset for reasons they couldn’t understand. But the last few weeks I’ve been able to see them a little and not feel completely like shit all the time. These baby steps are part of trauma recovery according to the psychologist. I’m immensely relieved things are improving.
Time also takes our loved ones away. So apparent today as I grieve a good person who used to symbolize bravery, energy and good times for us.
I only wish I’d been able to reconnect before it was too late.
thank you
Thank you Swedish, that helps. And I am sorry for your loss. X
I totally get you
It took years for me realize that his RSD was this giant gaslight that was totally messing with my heart and mind and soul and entire concept of who I am. Now I have told him for years that I can't allow myself to see myself through HIS warped lense. There is no way he is clear or sane when it comes to his assessment of me.
BurnedOutLady
It’s bizarro world
I started from the unenviable position of being raised by narcissists; I had a very limited sense of self, my own opinions, what I liked and disliked or even that I mattered, because everything was focused on someone else, the narcissist. I turned to my ex as someone who exhibited a similar authority to my dad. He knew who he was and he was important and I should listen to him and we should do what he wanted. But then I found myself living in this weird through-the-looking-glass realm where what he did was chaotic and selfish and thoughtless, and what he said - with absolute authority- bore no resemblance to reality, where my patience was never enough, my submission to his wishes was never enough, I was critical and cruel and judgemental. All this time I was earning our living, looking after our kids and home, and I was constantly dragging together more patience after being hurt and disappointed again and again by his thoughtlessness and selfishness. It was a poisonous dynamic, more like bully-victim or dictator-subject. I was never his parent, I was his PA, his servant, his scapegoat, his income. He was frustrated with himself because over time it became clear that reality didn’t match his sense of himself and lashed out at me while I just trying to support him, keep my head down, food on the table, and the marriage together, while my remaining sense of self, let alone any self esteem was battered to pieces. That was not me mothering him; I had nothing left for mothering him. I was never the parent. There have to be other ways of framing this. That the literature always frames it as parent-child is so invalidating and harmful and in no way acknowledges the damage done.
Sorry that was a rant. I was glad and sad to hear you. Sometimes you get a glimpse of how your ADHD partner seems to see you, it’s in a funhouse mirror. And you’re a monster there. But it’s not real; it’s a hideous distortion of reality.
Parent-child
I agree about parent-child dynamic being an inadequate description, as far as I’ve experienced ADHD marriage.
Begging for the ADHD partner to state a preference, asking for their opinion on joint responsibilities, while having to make decisions alone, never wanting to, that’s not parent-child dynamic. Neither is overworking to compensate, nor juggling chaos when ADHD dysfunction disrupts family life. That’s plain and simple an adult unable to fulfill adult responsibility. And another adult being forced to wear themselves to destruction, or break up the family.
I think more needs to be done.
my profession involves an acceptance of uncertainty. I am constantly aware that all the possible data has yet to be uncovered, that other interpretations exist, or will come into existence; that I do not have the final word; I just offer my informed understanding at that point in time. It is good practice; it leaves space for others to explore, and the potential for further questioning to happen, and further developments to take place. So I am sceptical of certainty. And in the writing about relationships impacted by ADHD there is a level of certainty that I find questionable. A relatively small data set has been used to extrapolate a narrative of the non-ADHD partner's behaviour. They are always bossy, parent-like, bullying. But this always is not valid: it entirely overlooks the individual psychology of the non-ADHD partner, the potential for other neurodivergence / personality disorders impacting the relationship, the sheer diversity of human experience and character. The data set is just too small. And yet this diagnosis is applied to everyone who is the neurotypical partner in an ADHD impacted relationship. Some people do recognise themselves - yes, they did yell, yes they did nag, yes they can change - others don't. I don't. I have my faults, but these are not them. Within the relationship I was too timid, too overawed, too self-doubting and deferential to do anything like nag, let alone yell, or bully; I just doubted myself, internalised the negative things he said about me, lowered my expectations and carried on; I cried, I was deeply lonely; my work suffered; I lowered my expectations again and again; I eventually got ill, and carried on; and then later, almost out of the blue, I totally collapsed emotionally, and wanted to kill myself. And then I ended the relationship rather than end my life, because I knew the kids needed me far more than they needed the marriage. So this parenting frame doesn't fit for me. IMHO, the narrative of the non-ADHD partner 'parenting' the ADHD partner needs to be offered as one of a range of things that happens, a possible interpretation, rather than a straightforward and certain answer. To do otherwise is loading the weight of more blame onto people who are already sinking. And in human relationships and psyches, it's very rare that anything is that straightforward.
The frame I have for my experience with my ex is more like parasite-host, or dictator-subject. He fed off me, exploited me; my energy and my executive function. He lived in lazy comfort, self-indulgence and self-importance, while I, like a fool, deferred to him, prioritised his wishes, and worked and worked and worked.
This
1000 times this.
Great post!
I never felt that parent child dynamic was an accurate description of the relationship. Host and parasite is a much more accurate description. You can work on yourself till the cows come home and follow all the therapy guidelines but unless you eradicate the parasite you will continue to weaken and decline physically, emotionally, and mentally. They suck all the goodness and kindness out of you and when you try to address things they gaslight and blame you. They say you are the problem, and in your weakened state from being sucked dry, you start to believe them. Often the advise is to be understanding, soften your approach, be kinder. You do all that and get steamrolled. Then you go back to therapy and the advice is set boundaries which leads to more RSD and out of control behavior. Meanwhile the parasite is still getting everything and not changing or changing just enough to shut you up then slipping back to their comfort zone.. Are there happy and successful ADHD/non relationships? Maybe. All I know is that everyone on this forum who has gotten the courage to eradicate themselves of their parasite is doing better alone.
adhd32
I asked today, "why was there this arbitrary deadline created...when at first...you were giving me a reasonable time frame...again?"
She said "don't you remember? You were "wigging out" 4 weekends in a row, so I had to change it, I couldn't take anymore of that"
I just said "ah, I see, it was my wigging out that finally did it."
She's referring to the time when she hit me in the face while trying to help her ( I offered ) with her broken dishwasher. Up until the the moment she hit me, and before that when I said "I not crawling under that cabinet a second time to fix something I didn't do."
She remembers what happened after she hit me......"that wigging out moment".
But neglects to add the before part into her story. All that left is me... "wigging out."
And that's how it goes. It also why I'm leaving.
In reality, that's the moment she lost control of me. To be succinct.
J
thank you
I am a natural sponge for blame, and consciously or unconsciously my ex exploited this. If I could just be more patient, kinder, nicer, more supportive, we would be fine. At the time my behaviour was consistently generous and deferential and supportive. I was burning unsustainable resources to cope with his needs, my profound loneliness, and to hold our family together. I realise I have some kind of long term damage as a result of this, but mainly by the through-the-looking-glass logic of him being emotionally and practically unavailable while I sank under the weight, and was told it was all my fault for not being ‘better’. And then the guidance about managing relationships with ADHD then also tells me it is my fault too. Without knowing me, my temperament, my ex, our lives. And so here’s the radical position I am arriving at, nearly a year after separation. Maybe it’s not my fault. Maybe I did my level best in impossible circumstances. Maybe I am not to blame.
Yes
Honestly, I’m certain you are not to blame.
It’s so easy to go back and think about interactions in the past, taking responsibility for depressing outcomes, flagellating oneself. I’ve found the big clear breath of accepting I did my best but wasn’t always attractive and couldn’t reach my goals though those hard times, is liberating.
We’ve already been punished enough. By ADHD partners, by family and friends who didn’t see our reality and didn’t support us. By illness, by despair.
You are good enough, and you have survived.
Research
I think research is probably thin on these relationships. Have pubmed-ed and found a few articles on the subject, they mainly concluded especially female partners of ADHD people are more miserable than people in general.
The (sometimes unaware?) parasitism of ADHDers is something I’ve pondered on too. To me it seemed there was no ill intent, but very bad self-awareness. And yes, I feel very much like I’ve carried a tick for twenty years.
I’m aghast to hear your description of how poorly your partner treated you. It hurts.
i think it came as a bundle with him
I’m pretty sure I was dealing with narcissism and autism with him, as well as ADHD. And my own repetition compulsion and bloodyminded refusal to admit defeat. A toxic mix.
Two days out and then I'm gone
The "parent child" dynamic is why I first came back here. At least, that's what I thought.
I also thought my partner: might be a narcissist, might be Borderline, might have another personality disorder... the goes on and on. Because I'm not a trained mental health professional...I only have my own experience to go on.
I don't believe any of those things are true now. You could cherry pick a few symptoms yes....but doesn't tell the whole story.
In brief, what happened to me is this. I walked straight into a family system that had a more global reach. I could only see one member....I couldn't see the entire system until later.
In this system, there's a hierarchy that is strictly adhered to. The basic foundation of the system itself. I was assigned a rank, the second I waked in the door. I was outside the system, trying to be inside.
So in this vertical system....I was ranked at the bottom...because everyone else was already above me. I certainly didn't understand my rank or role, but in the unspoken rules....that's where I was. No body told me anything of this. I thought I was on equal standing....boy how I was wrong!
So when I felt bossed or put down, that was the system of control talking...to get into my place of position in the system. This is exactly where the trouble started. When I mentioned "Parent Child" I was met with hostility and threat of expulsion. "If you ever bring that up again, I kick you out."
That wasn't the parent child...that was my "superior" in the system talking. In essense, I was attempting to remove the very thing that the system needed to survive: dominance and control.
And that simply doesn't work...for me.
I didn't understand rank
I didn't understand role
I didn't understand being "below"
And I certainly didn't understand why my equal partner....was treating me like a subordinate???
And with the truth revealed....that shit, simply doesn't fly with me.
I found myself shrinking and becoming small again. Going silent...and just observing.
Thats really when I knew..." This feels remarkably similar to the system I came from....my own family, which in reality now....I see the entire picture. My family, their family, the roles, and positions. Whos on top...and whos on the bottom. They weren't just similar....it was the same...just with different characters.
And me....who simply cannot abide. I was scapegoats my entire childhood....there's no way I'm doing that again.
Shit rolls downhill as they say....when I'm gone....the bottom role will be empty. Where it goes from here.....is not my concern any longer.
I'm outside the system now, and I feel much more myself.
J