Radical Acceptance | ADHD and Marriage

Forum:

It's been an interesting couple of weeks, after a major meltdown on my part a while ago, where it was clear that if I didn't draw boundaries for myself and stick to them, I was going to have a breakdown - I have gone into quiet, reflective mode. I'm just doing me, not pushing myself one iota beyond what I can comfortably do, concentrating on self-care activities, and focusing less on the ADHD problems in the household. Everyone seems calmer, and is indeed taking more responsibility where they can. Win.

But I'm still struggling with feelings of resentment, which I learned today in therapy is essentially anger. And being raised in a home where I was the non-angry (therefore good) kid, I guess it's been hard for me to grapple with anger, which has now turned into resentment.

My therapist threw a spanner in the works for me today. She suggested that I might need to look into the idea of radical acceptance. This felt like a cop-out to me - I am after all the doer, the fixer, the hyper-responsible, adult in the room. Doesn't accepting all of this just let "them" off the hook, and create more chaos for me? Doesn't this mean huge, big problems down the line?

I have to process what this means, what to let go of because it won't change to the extent I want / need it to. I just heard a short on Youtube by a rather renowned psychologist, that radical acceptance is like living in a house where your bedroom window faces where the sun rises, and it wakes you too early, but no matter what, you'll never change how the sun rises, so you might as well just accept it and find other ways around it, like getting block out shades, or a sleep mask, deal with being woken up earlier, or move (and maybe some of these are more possible than others). This hit me really hard.

This is my homework for the next few weeks, to let this really sink in and work with it. I'm so used to MAKING things happen, I really have no idea how to LET things be.

Comments

What if .....

You bought a dog, and later found out it was cat instead? You may have wanted a dog, but now you have cat? What would do in this situation? ( keep yelling "sit" at your cat ..and expecting it to obey ? )

I think what your saying, is something very similar to this.

J, very well put. Yes, in a

J, very well put. Yes, in a nutshell I guess this is a way to explain it. Although, the behaviours seemed very dog-like in the beginning! But this is great image for me to hold in my head, so thank you :)

This is a very simplified way...

of looking at this situation. Ultimately, I had to do this very thing and this kind of stripping things down to its essence helped me make a choice....accept my X....as is, or not.

Having said that, going back to my cat and dog analogy, I made the choice to accept "what is" instead of what I wanted it to be.

But that didn't fix what was wrong....it only put my mind in the right place, so I could continue without resentment and help remove any blaming or negative feelings, like I was trapped by my own indecision ( or ambivalence ).

That's really it. You always have a choice, but you have to make one first before it can serve you in any way. Accepting you are powerless to change another person is an act of power in itself.

I'm also a dog person by the way. I'm very much like a dog myself....but I still like cats too! Lol

act of power

Yes, I think this is what my therapist meant. Not to accept the dysfunction so as to enable it, but to put my mind in the right place so that I can continue without the acid of resentment eating away at me. If my spouse is doing as much as he possibly can at this point in time, then I have no choice left but to accept reality as it is and see if my own negative feelings are reduced.

I'm actually a cat lover, but I also love dogs :)

I love how you put this

If my spouse is doing as much as he possibly can at this point in time, then I have no choice left but to accept reality as it is and see if my own negative feelings are reduced.

I have "worked" to walk into the kitchen alone and laugh rather than get angry that half of the cabinet doors are left open. I've just shaken my head over the "reorganizing" projects in the house, garage and basement--episodes that are frequent, make zero sense, and make it impossible to find things since they have been moved 100 times over the past few years. (I found my car title in a stack of husband's papers in the basement long after I needed it to trade in the car; my original birth certificate is God knows where right now, etc.)

Then there are the "bigger" issues that really bother me. I guess to deal with them is my "separate life" that I've built around a spouse who stays home, doesn't like to socialize, has lost interest in the world. He complains that I won't retire. For what reason? To sit with him and watch TV all day?

Anyway, I've worked a lot on not sweating "the small stuff." It's a challenge. But, still, last night, I had a dream that I was yelling at him about the way he loaded the dishwasher again (I never say anything to him anymore; I just reload it so [more] things don't break.)

I'm with you!

I have no choice ....

Content Warning: Physical violence

"I have no choice left but to accept reality as it is and see if my own negative feelings are reduced."

2indepent, what you said here is profound, at the same time, WE ALL have to accept reality whether we like it or not. Right ? At the same time, you have no control over anyone but yourself and your own negative feelings.

I would take that a step and instead of just seeing if your negative feelings are reduced ( noticing them is GOOD ! ) doing something to reduce them, actively, in the moment, IS what you do have control over. That IS control, over yourself , and something you can do. You have that power, and that power is available to you at all times!

In what you just about cupboard doors open and dishwasher loading for example. I really do try very hard to, not to leave kitchen cabinet doors open, but it still happens on occasion, but it's still happens.

I've reduced that down to every 10th time, instead of every time, but it still happens none the less. I'll catch it now after the fact and close them when I miss it. That isn't me forgetting. Memory has nothing to do with. This bad habit comes directly from me, thinking about what I'm doing next ( with the glass in the cabinet for example ) and me , getting the glass, moving on to pouring the milk in the glass, putting the milk away ( back in the fridge ) then moving on to the next thing I'm doing what ever it is, and walking away. Do I know I do this ? Yes. Do I still do it? Yes. Do I know I better check because I still do it. Yes. Do I always check to make sure I didn't do it. No. Do I check most of the time to see if I didn't do it. Yes. Do I catch myself doing it when I check myself. Yes. Does that stop me from doing it completely. No. Do I close the door when I catch myself doing it. Yes. Do I do that more often than not ( the double checking myself. Yes. Does this STOP me from never doing it? NO!! Lol I catch myself all the time AND I double check and close the door...as long as I remember to double check myself. That part IS associated with memory...to remember to double check myself.

But trying to stop myself from leaving the door open is not about rembering not to. That's NOT why, I do it. We could sit here all day and discuss why I do it. I even know why I do it, but it still doesn't stop me from doing it !! Lol

And I'll even throw this out because I've watched myself do it, and caught myself in the act! Lol And it actually makes sense, to me at least. It's an efficiency thing. To reduce the number of steps...I'll leave the door open...so I don't have to open and close it twice...to get something out and put it back in. So I'll grab the thing out...leave it open...do what I need to do with "the thing" them come back, put the thing back in, and close the door or drawer once..instead of twice. It makes perfect sense ergonomically speaking. It reduces the number of opening closing times from two down to one. It's a perfectly logical thing to do BUT....

.....in reality...I never make it back to close the drawer or cabinet BECAUSE. Full stop.

I just don't do it MOST of the time !! I know this. I don't trust myself, so I go back and double check. I have to remember to go back and double check, and sometimes, I DO forget to go back and double check.

So here's thing. I now know, I have to open and close the door at the same time...at the time I open the door. This seems so simple but it's not. It is a habit, but it's also part of my attention to what I'm doing in the moment. I'm already operating two or three steps ahead of myself so forcing myself to be totally present and watching myself ( in the moment ) is really not an easy thing for me to do . In fact, as hard as I try ....I still do it ! And....I know I do it, so I go back and double check myself...just to find I missed it. Then I close it...after the fact.

So right now for example. I'm actually forcing myself to go against my own logic in efficiency ...and trying to form this new habit of opening and closing every time....in the moment when I open it. And yes, that even seems silly to me...that this is such a stupidly easy thing ( you might think ) to do. And yet...I STILL do it !!

I was thinking about what you said about walking in and finding the doors open. If you were with me, you'd only find them open occasionally. Not everyday day, all the time, every morning, and half of them wouldn't be open. I'm down to about one left open. So, with me....you'd walk into the kitchen and you might find one open...not half. And you'd probably walk in 3 or 4 days and find none open. Maybe , 1 or 2 days...you'd find one open. Maybe even the entire week, you'd find none open. That happens too.

BUT !! Just because you didn't find any open....doesn't me I didn't do it ! Lol Because I did do it!! I did it, I double checked and caught myself doing it and closed it before you got there !! Lol So when you get there later, the door is shut. I have to do "sweeps" in other words. I sweep up the stuff I missed and take care of it later after the fact.

The reality of having ADHD means, I'm gonna miss it...unless I do it right then in that very moment and open AND close the door...before moving on to the next thing. I can do that now, some of the time. Maybe even most of the time...and then I double check for the rest and I still catch myself on my "sweeps" to pick up what I miss. ...which gets about 90% ...but still not perfect . If you want perfection ( 100% compliance ) then....I don't know what else I can do for you ? That's about as good as it gets...perfection is extremely difficult for me to give you but it's not because I don't try. In fact, I'm trying my best not to...but in reality for me, I know I cannot promise you I'll remember to double check myself every time.

So, to be clear. I'm never going to stop ..not leaving the door open because. I don't even have to know why. I just know I do it. So trying to get me, not to do it, is not the fix for this issue. I'm going to do it. I know I do it. I catch myself doing it. It's not a memory thing. It's an ADHD thing. And it's going to happen ...and I know it !!

The only power I have is to double check myself, and fix it after the fact. Sometimes I actually open and close the doors right in the moment. But not every time. So I go back and close it, after the fact. And you, would walk in and go....awe...how nice, he rembered.

But what I did I remember? Answer: to go back and double check myself after I did it, and closed it before you got there. I didn't remember...not to do it because it's not a memory thing. I do it, I did it, I left it open, then I went back and closed it....sometimes.

That's as good as it gets right there. With me trying as hard as I can! Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. For me...it did happen. I just fixed it before you got there. That's reality...whether I like it or not. But clearly, I do have some power to correct this issue. Which shows by the fact...that you'd only find one left open....and only a few times in a week. Maybe less ...but I'm not making any promises because I can't make that promise. What I just said ...I definitely CAN promise WILL happen! Lol

Something about this, has me really baffled. It's this entire "obedience and compliance " thing...if you really get down to it. I don't fully understand this at all. It makes very little sense to me but, it's definitely something real...in reality!

And I know it's real...because it hit me in the face just recently!! Seriously. I'm still trying to work this out and it still baffles me to this day! I don't understand it, but it's very real.

I keep replaying the moment my X hit me in the face ( only a few months ago ). Here I was, helping her, trying to get the broken dishwasher removed to make room for a new one. I was doing her a favor. I offered to help her. I didn't have to. It wasn't required as I was already officially told that we were no longer a partnership. It's no my house or dishwasher so, it's not my responsibility to fix it. I didn't break it? It was just old and needed to he replaced ? And I'd done that work before. I knew what I was doing from experience. How could there possibly be a problem !!! One might ask?

So when I get to the part where, her directions went wrong ( she talked to her son, who told her what to do ) and what I did ( by her directions) was wrong. And Id have to do it over, because of the bad information she was given. And I told her no....I'm not doing it. ( non compliance ). And....I said it your problem, and your sons now....he can do it. It's his bad information, right? So I started walking away ( no words) just walking away. And then she hit me in the face. For what !! Non compliance and lack of obedience?? It's the only thing I did do. I said no...it's your problem now ( and her son's).

I'll always fix what I did wrong...no problem. Just like the doors. What I won't do, is fix someone else's mistake...just because I'm told I have to. At work, I have to. But not at home. At work I have a boss. My X was never my boss, and in that particular situation...she deferred to her son...not me.

If it's her son's mistake...that ain't my problem or responsibility...especially since I was already told I had to leave. Not my house anymore , not my dishwasher. Not my problem. I was doing her a favor, I wasn't required to make it right. My only mistake it seems...was no obeying and non compliance. And for that...I got hit in the face.

IMHO....this "obedience and compliance" thing is totall BS. I don't understand it. And I guess I never will??

dog person

In those circumstances, however much I accepted the cat, I’d still desperately yearn for a dog.

Yearn is a good word

Yes, this also hits the nail on the head. I guess this is where learning acceptance of what IS, is what I have to learn.

You don’t have to learn it.

You don’t have to learn it. You don’t have to twist yourself out of shape, distort your essential self to fit around your partner better. You can try to learn it, if you want to.

It seems that this is unintentionally keying into boundary issues you’ve had since childhood. It seems like you twisted yourself out of shape for parents then.

From what you’ve presented here, this feels like very bad stear from your therapist. Before you can make decisions like this, you need to know your feelings, feel your feeling, rage and mourn. Even if you have to do in private. Hear yourself, tune into your feelings. Be angry. Be furious. Be whatever you are. You are allowed.

Twisting vs. accepting reality

@Honestly, thank you for supportive words! It's definitely a bit of a different perspective I'm having to take - but actually the twisting and distorting myself has decreased massively, mostly because I could not overfunction anymore. The anger has been expressed, so that's not the problem (although it was for a long time due to childhood programming), and I think I'm kind of in the middle of the grief.

This phase seems more about accepting the reality, that his very best efforts (and he really is making them if I am honest and gracious) may still not move the needle enough for me. It's incredibly sad, and I suppose I always thought that with enough effort (I'm a master at that after all), all would be well.

Luckily it's not a chaotic situation, actually just the opposite - passive and lacking initiative was his style which is something I will have to see if I can truly accept.

Honestly is right

I absolutely agree with Honestly. The advice I recieved to accommodate my ex-husband’s dysfunction has prolonged my recovery after divorce.

They shouldn’t ask you to transgress your boundaries. They shouldn’t pretend you aren’t physically, emotionally vulnerable to the chaos your partner creates for you. The stress of saving the day. The pain and embarrassment when your partner disappoints or neglects others.

Boundaries

Swedish Coast, you're 100% correct and I'm learning to keep my boundaries very consistent and strong. It's a practice though, and one I have to keep my eye on!

I think what my therapist meant (and I'm going to dive into this more in my next session) is, if he is giving his 100%, taking the meds, desperately trying to find a therapist (near impossible in our situation to be fair), using all the tools he has learnt, AND I'm keeping my boundaries in place and practicing all the self-care and tools I've learnt whilst radically accepting reality as it is - then, more I cannot do. And at some point either the decision will be made to opt in or opt out.

For sure the longer this goes on, the harder it could be to recover, I absolutely see your point there.

If its Dr rhamani, then defo watch

I have found that Dr Rhamani's YouTube videos are soooo helpful. Even better is when she's a guest onna podcast bc that's the very core of her work - it's not about enabling the other person/behaviour, it's about accepting what IS and how you move about in the world with this being what it is.

But with that, at the beginning of learning radical acceptance it is HARD to understand and wrap ur head around. I get it and have been there. But it really does help in time and it will also help you start find where your boundaries are as well.

Dr Rhamini - Caveat

Off the Roller, I've watched Dr Rhamani on YouTube and I really like her approach too. In fact....one sound bite I remember her saying was something like: " your asshole uncle may not clinically be considered a narcissist...but that doesn't mean he's still not an asshole."

To be blunt....I agree with her statement, but keep in mind, she's talking ( mostly ) about Narcissists....not other issues that may look like or appear to be that diagnoses.

The idea of taking her advise from her talks about radical acceptance is sound. Radical acceptance is radical acceptance in other words. It can used for just about anything which is good. Nothing wrong with that.

But it's really easy to start going down that path, where you start projecting your own "narcissist bias" on other people especially when your wrong...and it's not narcicissm you're seeing.

And here I am, the ADHD person saying...I've done it too. And I was wrong in what I was experiencing. What it felt like, and what it was, were two different things entirely, EVEN IF...it feels exactly the same !

When I began to realize this difference is when I also changed my attitude. The intention changed ( the other person's ) when it no longer was intentionally aimed at me. It wasn't ego as much as control....and guarding that control like a drug addict guards against running out of their drug.

For my X at least....that "guarding behavior" was her, establishing boundaries where ever she went. From the moment I walked in the door....I soon realized, there were a lot of rules and "ways of doing things" that were not only strongly enforced....but were too many for me to deal with all at once.

These were her boundaries...and for me, I was trying the best I could to abide by them...there were just too many and I was overwhelmed with them all.... some were brand new ones I'd never even done before!!

But at the end of the day....as best I could, I could not meet her demands for strict compliance for all her house rules. On any given day....I may have stuck to 10....but there were 10 more ( rules/boundaries) I failed to remember... or had learned to make them a habit ( yet ).

She may well have believed I didn't care or wasn't trying but I definitely was...the entire time!

But from my perspective or point of view....what came back "at me" was asshole behavior...and I've certainly been guilty of that myself. It comes from not caring or giving a damn. That didn't make me a narcissist per se....but in the moment, I'm sure it came across as one.

And I tried to have this conversation with my X.....I tried to say this very thing but the gatekeeping was too strong in her. For her, the gatekeeping was like her drug...and she guarded it like there was no tomorrow.

All I knew at the end of the day was she became an asshole....anytime I tried to establish a boundary that did not fit into her book of rules.

But I also believe strongly...she wasn't a Narcissist. She just had control issues that made cohabitation impossible because I was never allowed to have boundaries of my own.

In Real Time

Content Warning: Physical violence/slap

Off the Roller....here's a perfect example of what I just said. It's an extreme example, but I think that actually helps make it easier to see.

This is also something I've been working on to put to rest, so it serves to reinforce what I'm saying in real time. I think this example speaks for itself.

I mentioned a few months back that my X hit me. It's was technically the fourth time she made physical contact with me....like a snake bite type hit. It was over as soon as it started.

This last time however, it was directly to my face. I'm 6' tall...she's 5'2". I tower over her physically so the physical effect was virtually zero. More startling but also....of no consequence to me. I'm not afraid of her physically speaking. I use to play waterpolo and get elbowed in the face where you saw stars and thought you might go unconscious for a moment ! With a big knot on your cheek bone to prove it! In comparison, her hit was more like a mosquito biting you instead.

So the hit itself is not the problem...the problem came from why she hit me. That tells the story as well as answering the why. We had already broken up, but I stayed after due to circumstances. Once we weren't technically together....I told her I would still help around the house if she needed it. The dishwasher broke....a new one needed to be ordered...and I offered to remove the old one to make that happen. They install...but not remove the old one for free was the deal. And her and son came up with the plan without consulting with me on what needed to be done. My job was to just do it as instructed...not to ask why ...just do it the way she wanted it. As it turned out...there was a problem with her plan. It required ....to re-do part of it because neither her son or her had ever removed a dishwasher before. I have ...on a number of occasions, and informed her that what she was doing was not what I would do...but I did it her way anyway.

But now comes the question ...who's going to fix the mistake? In that moment, I said no. I'm not fixing it....I offered to do it once, not twice. That was a boundary. I also said, if you and your son came up with the idea...then maybe your son can come over and do it? It was her son's idea after all...she knows nothing about dishwashers.

And... I turned and started walking away to go back upstairs to be away from her ( and her problem ) and she hit me in the face as I was walking away. Snake bite...that was it.

It's an extreme example but it's the same thing as what I was saying. I said no ( non compliance ) and set a boundary at the same time. I didn't take responsibility for what wasn't mine. That was the real problem ....the hit itself was meaningless.

at the risk of pushing the analogy too far

Cats can be rehomed.

It’s not necessarily a bad thing. Because wouldn’t it be better for the cat to be with someone who really really wanted a cat, rather than with someone who was just about coping with unintended cat ownership?

I arrived at this realisation in therapy. That it was wrong to stay with my ex at least in part because I’d arrived at a state where although there was still a kind of loyalty and concern there, I didn’t even like him anymore, and he should be with someone who did like him; who adored him. Who thought he was wonderful rather than struggled to tolerate him. We should both have a chance at that.

Honestly I agree with you.

You made a few really good points at the end of what you said. Putting the "marriage vows" and the "eyes of God" aside for a moment....

Who, including yourself, wants to be just tolerated? To be where you don't feel welcome or even liked ? Even worse, to feel the contempt of another person, to be in a room with someone you know, who really can't stand to be with you or even wants you around?

Now imagine, that person berating you, belittling you and calling you names ( labeling you in unkind or unflattering ways ) ...on top of what I just said.... to compound that, already unwanted feeling?

It basically sucks...I can confirm that personally....from a lifetime of feeling that energy from others at times. Mostly, in personal close relationships.

It also takes its toll on your self esteem even if it was in decent shape to begin with. It's hard to live with that kind of oppressive energy...the only kind of reinforcement you get is negative in a pervasive ongoing way. It doesn't feel good, I can guarantee it.

You could even take my last extreme example of my X hitting me as a case in point....pointing out, she only did that once ever ....it wasn't an ongoing thing. ( the hit to the face ).

Regardless of her ADHD, my ADHD...who's right or wrong, her inpulsiivity, gatekeeping, insecure attachment or what ever else ailed her....she simply didn't feel towards me as I did for her and wanted me gone at the ended of the day.

That is radical acceptance. I certainly was extremely disappointed and very hurt... but it is what it is.

I feel very strongly, that so much of all of that drama at the end especially...could have been avoided if she had simply said going back 2 years ago or more: "I don't feel the same the same as you do for me...I need to let you go because I can't give you what you need to be happy."

Boom. I still would have been disappointed and very hurt...but less...the last 2 years of feeling unwanted, tolerated and unwelcome in my own home. I can't think of a worse feeling to live with than that.

I also feel that was her responsibility to tell me ...but that conversation never happened until the day she decided to breakup.

In my mind...that was 2 years too late and a dollar short.

Yes, true

This I relate to. I was devoted to my husband for so many years, and then disappointed and stressed and depleted, and finally barely tolerated him in the house, and then made him move out.

I feel bad about that last part. Probably I couldn’t even admit at the time I came to loathe his presence. It had to do with him lashing out violently and cyclically. He forgot about a fight next day, but I could never forget. And with time, I also lost the ability to forgive.

But why did I put him through feeling completely unwanted and barely tolerated? For months? Was waiting for ADHD treatment to settle in to see what the future for us might be like, and I guess I still had hope at that point.

But for him, it must have been that feeling of me not wanting him anymore. For an extended period of time.

I wish I’d never done that to him.

I can't speak ....

to your specific situation Swedish, but towards the end with my X ....the effect of our dynamic was having the same affect on me as it dud with you. I finally stopped one day and thought " I can no longer say I even like her anymore * for me, that was the glue = liking her as a person ....as I experienced her....she'd become mean spirited without much to like anymore.

It just wasn't a healthy environment for either one of us so, like her, you just picked the time. I wasn't going to leave by being "bad vibed" out the door, so in that respect, I left that up to her, it kind of forced her to be the one to say or do something to change it.... but what happened, would have have happened anyway, just at a different time and circumstance. That's really the only difference it would have made.

Have a Nice Day

You said: "Doesn't accepting all of this just let "them" off the hook, and create more chaos for me? Doesn't this mean huge, big problems down the line?"

I've heard this asked before so I already know it's a big question that does not have an easy answer.....but I think I can make an attempt, by sharing my own more recent thoughts ...more than anything else, to answer it for myself. I'll do best to pull a lot of things together to make my case, as to why I feel the way I do...knowing I'm the one with ADHD.

I recently remembered a book I read years ago that has be percolating in my head lately. And even just recently....I saw a post on social media involving an Autistic Savant who had amazing gifts with numbers. True genius level stuff. He's also a synthete or person who sees numbers as colors. There's a book about him ( I just read ) that related to the color blue. In the comments, the Indigo topic was raised that raised my eyebrow. A few years ago, someone on social media said I sounded like one ? One what? I'd never heard of this before. I immediately looked it up and I have my own thoughts on that subject too but specifically...the description reads as: Warriors of Light - They are often seen as "warriors" or "disruptors" who challenge authority, injustice, and outdated systems (education, politics, society)."

This along with a bunch positive sounding accolades that makes it sound pretty cool ...almost desirable? So to put this context, people with ADHD are generally connected to this idea of Indigo Childeren....with me, even being called one ?? Mmmm.

So the book that came back I to my thinking was entitled: The Hells Angel's by Sonny Barger. Sonny Barger was like the God father of Hells Angels in the 60's and lesder of the now famous, Oakland California chapter of their motorcycle club. I enjoyed his stories immensely as I was alive during that time as a kid. I was definitely enamored with the motorcycle riding so at least it got my attention. Getting to the point...if there wasn't a more fitting group as a whole for ADHD I don't what other group I could think of ...rebel warriors, disrupters who challenge authority and pretty much make their own rules...and no one calls them out or...not good things will happen.

So basically, in a nut shell....Sonny Barger tells his story weaved into the story or the entire club and it's history. But one story stood out to me as quite amazing and factually true.

He tells the story of the time he left the house without a belt which became problematic when you rode his motorcycle and his pants kept falling off. He was visiting another biker who collected World War II memorabilia because, at the time, many of these bikers were ex-fighter pilots from World War II and rode because many had CPTSD. At the very least...they all had the same things in common. So he's there and he asks his friend if he had a belt he could have. The friend came back with a belt. On the buckle was a German Iron Cross...one from his collection. Barger said he didn't care what was on the belt...as long as it fit and kept his pants up. Later...after wearing the belt for a while, he noticed other Angels in the club started wearing Nazi German memorabilia too. After a while, rival club biker people in the Bay Area were also wearing it because they say the Angels wearing it. Later after that...you saw counter culture people in the Bay Area wearing them too. Not long after that...you saw people everywhere across the country ( especially bikers ) wearing them too. Pretty soon, you were seeing it everywhere until this day. Right now, those iron cross symbols are used everywhere in connections with motorcycles everywhere you look.

The point being....this Sonny Barger, real life but bigger than life character...could easily fit into an ADHD diagnosis too IMHO. And on top of that... the Hells Angles were in fact.. the go to for drugs....namely Amphetamines. Their entire business model as it was...focused primarily in Amphetamines dealing.

It can be argued that forces of nature come into play here, but there's nothing magical or mystical about that story. He just needed a belt ....that was the point he made clear. He had risen to some cult like status because everyone was rebelling at the same time and he just happened to be there at the right time.

So now I'm sitting here with some more unusual gifts going....I'm supposed to have this kind of glowing description of Indigo ( possibly ? ) and I'm thinking of Sonny Barger instead? He fits that description too ! Right out my search just a short time ago.

And in reality...Sonny Barger was a drug dealer who rode motorcycles and did as as pleased whether you liked it or not. He had great stories and was part of history but....

It's not different than what I just experienced with my X and inlaws and son. Her inlaws mother has ADHD. Her inlaws father is Autistic. Both her son and her daughter in law have ADHD....and I suspect the grandmother too.

To bring this all together. Not a person in that house is NOT nuerodivergent. Things I saw and behavior I witnessed were just swept under the rug or not addressed. Not only not addressed but even reframed as something better than it was...as a good thing.

And no one said anything or did anything to stop it. I cannot...not see...the correlary to be made here between everything I said. If no one says anything...and everyone around you either reinforces it by copying it...it grows and grows until its out of control. How could you not miss the Iron Cross / Motorcycle/ Heavy Metal symbol being used everywhere you go?

Also making the point, these definitions change nothing....these behaviors in general are hard to live with if the person sees no reason to be different. There's got to be a happy medium between supernaturally gifted and you're an awful person with no redeeming qualities. I can't tell you the words to say.

How did it go Haveaniceday?

I love the information you shared a few weeks ago as it was very well written. It really hit me hard as I am exactly at that point you were. At the end you said: