Submitted by Sueann on 08/10/2009.
My husband has ADD, we agree on that. And he's been willing to get treatment, and also marriage counseling. (Whether it's doing any good is anyone's guess)
However, he's doing one thing I have't seen mentioned here. He's decided if he has ADD and depression I must have it too. The depression is just the frustration that all the non-ADD spouses on this forum feel. I was successful at school, and I'm very detail oriented. I finish books and cross-stitch projects, etc. So what makes him feel that I have ADD just because he does. Is it like a medical student who thinks s/he has every disease they read about in a medical textbook? What can I do to defend myself against this charge? Has anyone else had this problem?
my spouse thought i had ADD/depression too
Submitted by arwen on
Yes absolutely, I've had this experience! (At other times, he's told me that I'm obsessive-compulsive, or anal-retentive, or a perfectionist, which was a real howler as anyone who walked through my front door could tell I was not by the condition of my home!) In my husband's case I think it was a case of wanting to "level the playing field". I think he felt that there was something "wrong" with him, and if he could convince himself that there was something equally "wrong" with me, then that would make all the problems just as much my "fault" as his, and then he would feel better about it all.
My husband likes to fantasize a lot, his fantasy worlds make more sense to him than the real one does. He's also very resourceful and fairly smart, so when his fantasy world didn't quite match up with the real one, and the collision of the two got him in trouble, he could frequently find a way to recover from the problem. That approach worked OK in dealing with the public at large, but it was an abject failure in dealing with lawyers, bankers or children, and ultimately with me as well. When he got into serious trouble from the collisions, instead of facing the realities, he'd "fix" his fantasy world with other fantasies that maybe produced less frequent collisions with reality but still weren't real. This is what I think he was doing when he'd claim I must also have ADD. It was a comfortable fiction that kept his fantasy world intact and satisfactorily explained to him why he and I kept having problems. He also has a lot of trouble taking responsibility for his behaviors, and if in his mind he could shove some of the responsibility onto me by making me an equal contributor to the situation, then he could feel like it wasn't his responsibility to address.
I countered this with positive proofs. I offered to be tested (he never took me up on it, because I'm sure deep down he knew what the results would be). I submitted the question to my spouse's counselor, who said he didn't see any evidence of it. I would test my spouse's memory about things even he would admit would have been reasonable to expect him know, and then asked him to test mine -- it always became obvious very very quickly that I didn't have the same kind of trouble remembering things as he did. I asked him for examples of my supposed impulsiveness -- he couldn't think of any, whereas I could reel off endless instances. We used a white board posted in the hall to track jobs that needed to be taken care (for all family members), and I would point out how he always had fewer items to do and yet always got a smaller percentage finished than anyone else. etc. etc. etc. Basically, I had to make it absolutely impossible for him to cling to this convenient fiction. That would last a few months, and then we'd go through the whole process over again. Eventually the idea finally penetrated in his mind that this was a fiction I was never going to go along with and he was never going to be able to make stick. (You have *got* to be persistent, you have *got* to be determined!)
The only charge my husband made on this score with some justice was that of depression. I very frankly admitted to both my husband and his counselor that dealing with my husband's ADD caused me chronic low-level depression. It clearly wasn't incapacitating in any way, since I was working full time while raising our children (who were competitive athletes and required a lot of driving to a lot of practices and events as well as the ordinary everyday activities of school and clubs), maintaining my home and coping mostly adequately with my husband's idiosyncracies. The counselor met with me for several sessions and concluded that I didn't need medication or continued counseling, that I was managing as well as anybody could be expected to.
Of course, your spouse may be operating on a completely different basis than mine! But I still think a strong and positive demonstration of your capabilities is the best way to cope. "Show and tell" has a place here! In my case, it helped that I had already set up tracking mechanisms that I could point to as objective measures. If you don't have anything like that, you may need to makes notes of relevant items for a while. Good luck!!!
Thanks, Arwen, for the validation
Submitted by Sueann on
Wow! What a thoughtful reply. It does mirror my own experience.
He decided after about 6 weeks of marriage that he didn't need to do his job correctly, getting fired and depriving me of medical insurance and threatening my life. Then he decided, due to depression, that he was unable to get another job. We went over 2 years like that, with me working 2 jobs, or 2 shifts at my main job. Then he wondered why I was tired and sad, but did nothing to address the cause. He also did nothing to maintain the house, because "it just gets messed up again." Duh! Of course it does. Then you have to do it again. A good marriage counselor finally convinced him that his refusal to TRY to get a job was damaging our marriage, and he started applying. Then of course, he got hired and now he loves his job.
Anyway, I am glad to hear that I'm not the only person who has had this experience.
glad your husband loves his job
Submitted by arwen on
My husband also loves his job, and I think it's a real important reason why we are still married. I've certainly been capable of supporting myself and my family, I've been the only breadwinner at times when his job didn't work out well, but I couldn't have sent our kids to college (let alone anything out of the state), nor save any money for a retirement, if he did not work. When I was supporting the family, he was being a "house husband" (fortunately, this occurred at a point in his life when his ADD was not as bad as it later became) -- although not a total failure at it, he was not what I would call adequate, either. Very fortunately, when our youngest was born, he was able to get into a job that was ideal for him. Otherwise I'm sure the fighting we'd been doing up to that point would have just escalated over time and we definitely would have ended up divorced, despite the fact we love each other.
I'm so glad your spouse has also found a good situation in his work! And you sound like you have a wise counselor. So you've got two key points working in your favor -- hang in there!
Couselor
Submitted by Sueann on
Unfortunately, that counselor dropped us like a hot rock wtih no notice and no referral to anyone else. Now we are seeing a psychology graduate student at our local university, and we are about to change again because she is going on a different rotation. Insurance doesn't cover marriage counseling and there is no way we can pay somone privately. I feel that this counselor has not been useful. My husband sees a different counselor there for his ADD/Depression issues, but I have seen no difference and he won't tell me what they talk about. Sometimes I lose hope.
counseling options
Submitted by arwen on
I'm so sorry to hear that you are having difficulties with your counseling arrangements!
Our insurance doesn't cover marriage counseling either, but it does cover counseling for ADD 50% (and putting money in a pre-tax health savings account help offset about another 10%) -- and my husband's ADD counselor views *occasional* marriage counseling as part of my husband's ADD counseling. So if we need some marriage counseling once a month or two, he is willing to accommodate that as part of the program.
My being able to see the counselor with my husband this way also provides several important benefits beyond the simple benefits of joint counseling. It allows the counselor to really see how we interact, not just get my husband's perspective, and that helps him form an idea of how true my husband's characterizations are, as well as give him a better idea of who I really am. This in turn helps the counselor give my husband more useful guidance in their individual sessions. It also allows me to get a sense of what the counselor and my husband are discussing, and how effective the counseling may be, without our counselor being asked to violate any patient-counselor confidentiality. I haven't always been happy with my husband's progress or the direction of their discussions, and by identifying my own concerns, I have an opportunity to help the counselor be aware of additional areas that should be addressed. I don't try to control or direct matters myself in these sessions, I trust the counselor's professional abilities, but I do feel that my point of view has to be relevant to the counselor's analysis, so I do feel it's appropriate to communicate how I see our situation.
I urge you to ask your husband if he would be open to an occasional meeting that included you, and find a new counselor that will accommodate that. There's no doubt in my mind that it could be of real help to both you and your spouse if it could be done. And I think it would help give *you* more hope. My prayers are with you!
Counseling Continued
Submitted by Sueann on
I've really enjoyed all your posts. You have a good head on your shoulders. I hope your husband appreciates you. A lot of wives would have given up but you are still hanging in there.
The young therapist-in-training we see is very nice but I don't think she specializes in ADD. (I always say ADD because my husband has absolutely no "H".) A psychiatrist works with them one afternoon a week and he is able to get his meds from there. Insurance doesn't enter into it. They charge less than the insurance co-pay.
"His" therapist is part of the same student clinic. I believe she and our marriage counselor can talk to each other. I've met her in the hall a few times and had a few conversations with her to confirm appointments, etc. but again, I can't tell if she is being trained to specialize in ADD. I have CLOTHES older than either of these young ladies, not to mention kids, so it's hard to take them seriously.
I spend over a year trying to find someone who could prescribe ADD meds to my husband. We were on a limitied budget because of his decision not to work, and were without insurance. The county-run mental health clinic won't prescribe ADD meds for adults because they have street value. I sure hope whatever healthcare plan passes has mental health benefits.
counselor need not specialize
Submitted by arwen on
Thanks, Sueann, for your kind words -- I'm just really glad if my experience can help someone else!!
My husband's counselor is not an ADD specialist either. (As a result, our progress was probably slower at the beginning than it could have been, which I wasn't thrilled with, but I felt my husband's comfort with this counselor was more important in the long run.) But his counselor was willing to "bone up" on ADD (my spouse has no "H" either), and to talk to other counselors who *were* specialists, to get some insights. So as long as your husband's therapist is willing to put that kind of additional effort in, it may still work OK. Maybe you can ask Melissa or Ned if there are any resources they can recommend to your husband's therapist, and then ask her if she is familiar with them or show her the list?
I can really sympathize with you about the insurance issue -- we have had a taste of no insurance ourselves, and the meds and sessions are *so* expensive!! Unfortunately, those who are not close to this situation (unlike ourselves!) do not typically appreciate just how crucial both the meds and the counseling are. I hadn't been thinking about mental health benefits in the healthcare reform at all until your remark -- I will have to look into this further, and if there is no provision for them in the plans, maybe I will have to start a petition campaign to include them!!!
I pray that this counseling situation will work itself out for you -- I think it really helps to have a counselor that you can have a longterm relationship with, so that you don't have to keep "reinventing the wheel", so to speak, with a series of new counselors. Good luck!
Yes
Submitted by ViviC on
My partner has adhd and believes that everyone else has it too, to differing extents. Go figure.
My ADHD husband is the same
Submitted by newfdogswife on
My ADHD husband is the same way in regards to the fantasy world that he lives in, so I can relate!!!! He acknowledges that he has ADHD but still has problems accepting the diagnosis and working to make our life together better. He won't talk about it very often but when we do for a brief moment, he always ends up mentioning that he thinks I have problems too and need to get some help!!! OH BOY!!!!
engaged and was very close to marriage
Submitted by grace on
I'm engaged to a man who has ADHD he is medicated. He is very responsible with finances and his career. We moved in together/became engaged a few months ago. Things have changed... he has been condescending, he distorts what I'm trying to say, constantly interrupt (by telling me to shut the f... up and listen to him do I understand YES or NO) His tone is full of contempt and he has the final authority. He suggest he is the best thing that has happen to me...to the point of making up what my life was like prior to him. I should be thankful to him and always be the apologizer. If I don't apologize and agree he is right there will be hell to pay. The one time I didn't give in he called my family and friends and told lies about me. My family and friends are very concerned, they know the type of person I am and what he was insinuating scared my family. The anger directed at me is undeserved, name-calling (c..., wh...), threatening to put my daughter and me out on the street. He expects everyone to be overly thankful to him. He has left me feeling intimidated, disrespected, attacked and defeated. I have never had anyone speak to me like this or treat me so horribly. This is not just me I have witnessed the same with his daughter she does not like to be alone with him will rarely come over to visit him if she does she wants me here. It is so sad that he is so selfish.
I'm ready to leave and now he wants to talk about it. I'm not sure I want to talk about this I don't understand why he lacks empathy; he acts as if he cannot identify with me or my emotions. He said he would like to go talk to someone together. He has even suggested I tell him what I need to hear. Last but not least I have a lot of faith and have prayed about this. I have asked him to do the same. Thank you for listening I’m feeling a bit lonely and wanted to talk to someone who understands. tg
GRACE
Submitted by Steph on
GET OUT! Don't look back. Don't talk to him about it, he will make empty promises and outright lies to try to get you to stay... and things will only get worse for you and your daughter. Trust me, I know of what I speak. It always gets worse. GET OUT! NOW!
I am very concerned about you
Steph
Submitted by grace on
Please tell me what you know. Thank you for replying.
agree with Steph, advise you get out
Submitted by arwen on
Grace, I usually feel I should not offer bald advice -- normally I try to suggest to others what might be useful for them to know based on my experience. I have no experience with being treated the way this man treats you, so I cannot do that here.
But I have to agree with Steph. You have a child to think of. My husband was not diagnosed with ADD until he was in his 40's, and even without the kind of maltreatment you have suffered, I would have left him if I felt I had a choice. My husband did things unwittingly that were dangerous to our children, and I would have demanded sole custody, which his parents would have pushed him to contest, since they don't believe he has ADD. I felt I could not count on a court to rule in my favor, since it would have only been his word against mine, and he would have sworn he was telling the truth because he actually can't remember very well due to his ADD-- it seemed to me it was less risky to my children for me to stay in the marriage where I had the ability to protect them better.
If for no other reason, I believe you should leave this man for the sake of your daughter. Believe me, someone with these kinds of problems will feel free to treat her just as badly as he is treating you if he feels provoked, and possibly worse. Don't subject her to this, nothing is worth that. It doesn't matter what the reason for his behavior is, all that matters is that his anger issues are out of control, and he is abusive to you and will be towards your daughter as well. If my husband had behaved this way, I definitely would have left, hoping that in the custody fight I could at least make a strong enough case to require that his time with our children would have to be supervised.
People with ADD have a tendency to make all kinds of promises, which they often sincerely mean to keep at the time they make them, but all too often they either don't remember them, or remember them differently, or don't feel obligated to fulfill them for reasons that only make sense to them. You cannot put your faith in these promises or assurances, the only thing you would be able to trust would be a complete, VERY long term, improvement in his actions (we're talking years of sustained change, not weeks or months).
Please also be aware that because people with ADD have problems understanding interpersonal relations due to their difficulties with perceiving and remembering adequately, there is sometimes an inclination to feel they have been treated unfairly -- no matter how hard and clearly you may try to explain to them what's wrong. Because of their ability to hyperfocus, they sometimes nurse these grievances, and can be actually quite vindictive. So, I also advise to exercise care in how you end the relationship. I strongly recommend you avoid any blaming or anger in the breakup.
Good luck!!
I did I hung up on him.....He is very angry
Submitted by grace on
I provoked him by hanging up on him...I told him I didn't want to hear it anymore. God Help Me. I need to call him back and apologize until I can get out of here.
if you apologize, be honest
Submitted by arwen on
Grace, I'm sorry if I've scared you. You do need to be careful, but if you deal with this carefully you don't need to be scared.
First of all, make sure you are honest with whatever apology you say to him! If you feel it will help your situation for you to apologize, by all means do so. I've apologized to my husband for things I didn't really think were my fault, but maybe could have been if I had done something unwittingly to give a wrong impression or some such, just so that he would remain calm enough to keep listening to me. I've found the best way to deal with such apologies is to say something like, "I'm sorry, I shouldn't have let my frustrations get the better of me" -- let's face it, we all know we never should blow our cool, so that's safe and honest to apologize for.
Second, whenever you actually do make it clear you are through, it's less provoking to express sadness than anger. "I just don't think we can make this work. I've thought about it over and over, and it just seems to me we have too many problems." If he reacts extremely to an effort to completely break off the relationship, it might be worth it to try for a short break -- this will give you time to marshal your arguments if you do have to talk with him again, and it gives him time to cool off, and maybe lose some interest in the relationship even. It may also be helpful to say "I need time by myself to think about this all some more." You don't have to be specific about *how* you'll be thinking about this.
You can do this. You have help here. Stay cool. My prayers are with you and your daughter!
keep records
Submitted by brendab on
Grace,
Your situtation does sound awful. It may not seem important now, but keep a record of everything he says and does. Write down when/where and what you did in response to protect yourself and your daughter. People don't often think of this in the midst of the problems. You will need some kind of written record if you need to get a protective order. I also think the battered women's shelter could be a very good source for you. Let them help you.
Brenda
Steph He knows I'm trying to leave
Submitted by grace on
He is out of town until Tues. he will be back about 3:30 I'm going to the apartments tomorrow as soon as they open and sign a lease for whatever is available. He said if I'm not out by Tues before he comes home he will call the police. I can do this. I feel it in my heart I need to get out of here as soon as possible I'm scared however I'm not sure why I'm so shook up. Maybe his anger is getting to me.
grace
Submitted by Steph on
Grace, just sign whatever lease to keep you and your daughter safe and get the hell out. Fear is a sign that you are in danger.
It does escalate. It won't get better. Keep checking in and keep us informed.
I agree...Be safe Grace
Submitted by ajr on
Grace,
Im not one to give unsolicited advice also, but I did NOT get a good feeling internally reading your post... I agree with Arwen et al.....Keep yourself safe an your daughter by signing a lease and leave to create some ditance between you two........I get a sense this guy is a chameleon....If you feel your daughter is uneasy around him, trust you inner intuitions.... You are in my thought and prayers.....My gut feel tells me this is not the best way to start an engagement or marriage....I sense there is just too much turmoil going on.. You are strong.... keep us posted. This site is a great source of strength for people like you going through tough times.
Computer safety; I feel your anxiety. I've been there.
Submitted by ADD.divorcee on
Grace,
It's late; however, I wanted to get a brief comment off to you before I go to sleep. I hope all of the responses you've gotten thus far show that the heightened anxiety you're experiencing is felt by all of us. I'm glad you found this website - people really care. And that is why I mentioned computer safety in the subject line.
This is only the third time I'm responding to someone's post, although I've read this blog for many months. I have often wondered what happened to "this person" or "that person" and what decision or direction the person may have chosen. After reading about someone's serious relationship issue for a couple of weeks, I want to know what happened and that the person is doing as well as can be expected. Then I got to thinking that, perhaps, one of the reasons a person doesn't continue to post to the blog is that their partner discovered what was being written about him or her. In other words, many couples, married or not, share one computer. And since it appears that many women have easily been able to read their partner's e-mails, thus learning about infidelities and seeing downloaded porn, it is possible that the male partner would just as easily be able to read his partner's e-mail and see the websites visited, unless care is taken to erase one's tracks.
The last comment, I think by Rowdy, mentions trying to get in touch with a battered women's shelter. That is a wonderful suggestion. Over the span of approximately four years, at two crucial points in my life, I used the services of the battered women's shelter where I lived. I went to weekly informational group sessions to confirm what I suspected: my ex-husband was indeed an extremely verbally and emotionally abusive individual. Everything wrong in "his" life was "my" fault. If he decided he wanted to say something to me, it was always said with much disdain. If I asked him a question, he either chose not to answer, or he'd answer with "Why do you ask?" Getting out of the marriage was pure torture.
The advantage you have now, Grace, whether you feel it or not, is that you are not legally married to this man. It also appears that you have good support from your family and friends. Do you live close to any of them? The closer you live to them, and the further you live from him, the better your chances are for you to feel safe, and therein lies your ability to best take care of your daughter.
One last thing I want you to know before I turn the computer off:
Being a person with ADD, medicated or not, doesn't mean that one "gets a free pass" to be nasty, condescending, controlling, and threatening.
I think it's important to mention the above since I'm the ADHD person. And I truly struggle with many of the things that ADHD women struggle with when diagnosed later in life. And, it's difficult and it's frustrating; however, I'm a nice person. If I hurt someone's feelings, it's never on purpose, and I always apologize. My ex-husband, who isn't ADHD, sounds similar in many ways to your ex-fiance. He's never wrong; he never apologizes.
Grace, I hope the apartment search goes well. You're truly courageous and doing the right thing for both you and your daughter.
Thank you for your support and prayers this afternoon
Submitted by grace on
yes I'm scared I feel like I have lived through hell and back. I will keep you updated.
Grace
Submitted by RowdyD on
I would consider getting help from a battered women's shelter if there is one near you. If these apartments are ones he knows, you may not be safe there either. A shelter might be able to help you assure your safety, even if you can't be housed there.